Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience Level • Hacker News Board

Re: Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience Level

#381

Post by ToJans » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 7:27 AM UTC

hardwaresofton wrote: post #378

atomicUpdate wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By working with others, you've obviously benefited from learning from others. And even if you have spent your career alone in a dark office, the company has spent time paying you to learn from your mistakes. Why it is strange for the company to expect you to pass along anything and everything you've learned to other developers, junior or otherwise? The stranger part is that you can't recognize that teaching other peo…

I absolutely recognize the fact that everyone learns from others and having a space to do that and people who are willing to invest in others is great -- my problem is that it's a requirement and not a differentiator. Not every good engineer is a good teacher and not every good teacher is a good engineer. The two things are almost orthogonal in my opinion. The kind of teaching you mention in the second paragraph is s…

This might be a bit off-topic, but after gaining some experience, teaching something to others is one of the best ways to reflect on the things you learned and gain new insights. You have to do it first, but teaching stuff will probably provide you with some deeper insights.

Re: Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience Level

#382

Post by mceoin » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 7:30 AM UTC

oppositelock wrote: post #374

bgentry wrote: post #28

I understand that it’s hard to compare non-salary compensation. But these figures give the impression that compensation for a Bay Area software engineer is shockingly lower than the reality. RSUs and bonuses at established companies will easily double your take home pay. Even the salary figures themselves look low and are probably heavily skewed by an overrepresentation of underpaying startups. My base salary ~4 year…

Only use these statistics as a guideline, and negotiate the hell out of your compensation, even at a startup. You would be shocked at how much leeway companies have in compensation if they need your skill set. I've worked at preeminent silicon valley companies, middle of the road ones, and startups (been doing this way too long I guess). I've managed to sign for almost 50% over their initial offer a couple of times.…

It is now illegal for employers to ask about past salary: [first article I googled] https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/make-money/salary-history-la...

Re: Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience Level

#383

Post by b4lancesh33t » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 7:30 AM UTC

softawre wrote: post #210

aantix wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Engineers outside the Valley often list the cost of living as a negative, but coupled with the insane amount of salary leverage (in part because of the COL), I never got financially ahead until I moved to the Bay Area. You're a King in SV as a software engineer.

You're a king? So you live in a mansion? I live in the midwest, wife doesn't work, 10 years experience - we live in a 4k sqft house in the best school district in the state about 25 minutes from the city. How much does that cost in SV?

4k sqft 25 minutes from mountain view is probably a cool three million at least. Otoh I have saved four and a half million over the last ten years as a simple non-workaholic individual contributor at one of the big cos. So maybe it's ok?

Re: Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience Level

#384

Post by bgentry » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 7:33 AM UTC

pm24601 wrote: post #346

SmellTheGlove wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand that it’s hard to compare non-salary compensation. But these figures give the impression that compensation for a Bay Area software engineer is shockingly lower than the reality. RSUs and bonuses at established companies will easily double your take home pay. I agree with your overall message, but base salary itself is very important. That's what puts a roof over your family's head and food on the table…

I would go even further. Too often devs overvalue RSUs / options, etc. Such things are great - but even at Apple, the return on RSUs is going to level off or become less reliable. RSU / options are lottery tickets not a reliable income stream.

RSUs and options are very different. RSUs are shares that the company gives to you, and for a public company you can sell them almost immediately to convert them to real cash. Their value fluctuates as does the company’s stock, but it is still real income. The rational thing to do is usually to sell all or most of the shares as soon as they vest and not to gamble on future returns.

Options at startups are basically worth nothing, unless/until the company becomes a breakout success. Even then you generally can’t sell them unless there is an IPO or you do a second market deal. These really are a lot like a lottery ticket.

I won’t get into all the ways options can be worthless even if the company does well enough to IPO, and you actually managed to exercise / keep the shares you vested.

Also, some later stage non-public startups issue RSUs instead of options. These too are closer to a lottery ticket.

Re: Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience Level

#385

Post by ykler » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 7:34 AM UTC

jandrewrogers wrote: post #353

ykler wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have evidence of this? This web page suggests that the extra costs in the UK are not that high: https://www.crunch.co.uk/knowledge/employment/how-much-does-... In some European countries it is hard to fire workers, which could be a serious issue, but in general it is hard to believe that hiring in Western Europe is not cheaper than in the US, usually.

I work at a global (nominally European) company with some of its largest offices in Europe. When I have floated the idea of hiring in Europe instead of Seattle, because of wage costs, I have been informed that it doesn’t save much money despite the wage difference. The employee overhead in the EU is (to my USian mind) astonishingly high. The UK is not as bad as the continent, but I floated that too and was informed i…

What are the principal sources of excess overhead?

Re: Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience Level

#386

Post by mceoin » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 7:48 AM UTC

turtles wrote: post #256

bgentry wrote: post #28

I understand that it’s hard to compare non-salary compensation. But these figures give the impression that compensation for a Bay Area software engineer is shockingly lower than the reality. RSUs and bonuses at established companies will easily double your take home pay. Even the salary figures themselves look low and are probably heavily skewed by an overrepresentation of underpaying startups. My base salary ~4 year…

Had been thinking of moving to CA, but might as well stay in Sydney by the sounds of it.

Perhaps, but you might learn more in CA; bigger market, moves faster, more experienced co-workers, stronger culture of entrepreneurship, generally bigger thinkers.

Worst case scenario is that after earning USD for 2 years on an E3 visa, you return home more experienced than your peers with "Silicon Valley Startup Experience" in your resume, if that is something that appeals to you. Stronger startup ecosystem on the small scale, bigger problem sets on the large scale.

Don't get me wrong, the startup and tech scene in Sydney has grown into a solid network over the last 5 years, but you have to weigh that against the certain knowledge the Bay Area accounts for 40% of U.S. venture funding and even that pales in comparison to the tech giants who are either based or have sizable offices here.

In terms of lifestyle, Sydney will always win. I suspect this is why there is such a strong loop back home after Aussies spending some time here.

Re: Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience Level

#387

Post by ykler » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 7:53 AM UTC

trhway wrote: post #340

ykler wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're complaining, but if it is really so easy, just become a founder. In a way, it is impossible for there to be an unfair distribution of wealth between people who do A and people who do B if everyone has the choice whether to do A or B.

>it is really so easy, just become a founder. you've missed the important point. It isn't for everybody. I specifically mentioned that it is already successful people with a lot of good connections. Thus such a startup is just the next step in the career progression. For a plain engineer, like me for example, who can't make even a CTO/VP of engineering of a small company or a Director/division Chief Architect/etc. at…

OK, sorry that I misunderstood you. But for what it's worth, lots of people with no connections have bootstrapped or gotten into incubators and then gotten funded or just hustled and got funded. For instance, just yesterday I talked to a woman with no connections or track record who got seed funding for her startup, but it took her over a year of "making friends with investors". Obviously it is a lot easier if you are well connected though.

Re: Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience Level

#388

Post by kelnos » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 8:00 AM UTC

mceoin wrote: post #382

oppositelock wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only use these statistics as a guideline, and negotiate the hell out of your compensation, even at a startup. You would be shocked at how much leeway companies have in compensation if they need your skill set. I've worked at preeminent silicon valley companies, middle of the road ones, and startups (been doing this way too long I guess). I've managed to sign for almost 50% over their initial offer a couple of times.…

It is now illegal for employers to ask about past salary: [first article I googled] https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/make-money/salary-history-la...

Well, as of Jan 1st it will be, anyway.

Re: Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience Level

#389

Post by jonny_eh » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 8:01 AM UTC

redditmigrant wrote: post #284

mikeokner wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? No one's stopping you from starting your own venture. What makes you entitled to a larger piece of the pie if you aren't putting in the extra work or shouldering the extra risk of a founder?

You are shouldering risk, by presumably not working at big co and having an assured higher paycheck.

Not everyone wants to work at Facebook or Google, nor can they start their own gig from scratch.

Re: Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience Level

#390

Post by Annatar » Thu, Nov 30, 2017, 8:03 AM UTC

Senior software engineers: have 5-7+ years professional engineering experience

At five to seven years of experience, one is still just an apprentice. A senior engineer will have 20-30 years of experience. What would those guys with 20 years of experience be considered then?