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Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

theguardian.com

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Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#61

I wish I could edit the hosts file of Android devices without root. Barring that, I wish I could force a DNS server for both wi-fi and mobile data links, which I believe also requires root. Either one of these options would allow the use of DNS blackholing for adware/malware domains. Without it, protecting yourself on mobile is that much more difficult.

I've long thought about setting up a service that people can connect to with their mobiles or other devices (who don't want or can't root) that basically sanitizes their connection: strips out ads, beacons, tracking cookies, etc. Or, set up virtual desktops that people can connect to that also use VPNs that could allow people to originate their traffic from a given region. I'm primarily interested in created a saniti…

you'd need them to install a custom root cert if you wanted to MITM their secure traffic, and still wouldn't be able to do much with any app or service that pins or bundles its own certs without going through PKI system though?

I guess you could just block that traffic and let people deal with the breakage, maybe. I wonder how common it actually is.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#62
post #54

This thread is a really interesting example of how easily humans can simultaneously hold conflicting beliefs/opinions. I'm gathering that a lot of developers and businesspeople here: a) are very concerned about collection of their own data b) derive material value from Crashlytics, Mixpanel and other "tracking tools" for their work It's tricky to reconcile those two ideas.

I'm a good example of this. I'm an ad guy and a marketer, and as such I'm much more intimately familiar with how this stuff works, what it collects, and how it is used than most. I'm also going to expand what I say beyond just the world of apps, because it is really applicable to anything digital these days, whether it is in an app or on the web, because I hate thinking of those things in silos.

To be a successful marketer in this day and age, proper analytics is a non-negotiable requirement. If I was interviewing somewhere and they told me that I had to market and advertise for an app or website, but that I couldn't track things, that would be the end of that discussion. I would be set up for failure from day one. If anyone wants to make a case otherwise, I'd ask that they share their credentials as someone sufficiently experienced and qualified to make such a case, and how they would go about being successful without that data when pretty much any significant digital (or non-digital to an extent) strategy these days requires that data to measure success and optimize for it.

So there's that piece.

As an end-user, this is often a source of cognitive dissonance for me, and it has grown over the years. 8+ years ago, I had very different feelings when people talked to me about what was being tracked and how it was being used. It was less audience-centric, cross-device/channel tracking was not really a thing yet, and we didn't have anywhere near the aggressive tracking that FB and Google have today (even though some of the first signs of that were showing up publicly perhaps).

Today I'm pretty paranoid about the data out there, who has access to it, and how that data can be used, both for anti-competitive business purposes, as well as more nefarious uses, even if unintended (such as via a data breach). I run noscript at home, and Firefox with uBlock Origin at home and on my phone.

I personally don't have an issue with people collecting usage data for improving the product and their business, but there's a weird gray area for me when they start using that data against me for things like dynamic pricing, dark patterns, selling email hashes to cookie onboarding services for retargeting, etc. I also recognize that while I may not have much to hide, I know I'm pretty lucky in that regard compared to others who may not want to be identified by certain means, and I fully respect and appreciate their desires to remain untracked in that way.

For example, I am pretty upset at how Reddit is moving towards increased tracking and verification as they march towards heavier monetization. That's an example of a community with many people who NEED to remain untracked for safety purposes, and that data, were it to fall into the wrong hands, could prove dangerous for them. Likewise, the simple act of forcing the collection of it could turn them away from such a platform which could indirectly cause them harm (suicidal users seeking help, abuse victims, whistle-blowers, etc.).

So where do I net out with all of this and how do I sleep at night? Well, for my part I do what I can to be sensitive to protecting PII, not collecting data that I'm likely to never need, and really weighing heavily the tradeoffs and risks when I implement something like the Google or FB tracking tags anywhere, and what I may pass into them. I also make an effort to set the record straight and educate people on what I know of tracking, and how to best limit collection if you are concerned, because I think it is something everyone should be educated about so they can make those decisions in an informed matter themselves.

I respect that some people hate my profession and think I'm evil, and I'm never going to win those people over, nor do I really feel the need to. But I'll say that to be competitive with marketing a product or service in this day and age, you dramatically hurt your chances of success if you DON'T have some decent tracking, and so the realities of the situation often dictate what happens in many businesses. My guess is the people who have such black and white views haven't ever been tasked with marketing a product in a true professional capacity, and if they have I'd love to hear their stories and what led them to their views.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#63
post #54

This thread is a really interesting example of how easily humans can simultaneously hold conflicting beliefs/opinions. I'm gathering that a lot of developers and businesspeople here: a) are very concerned about collection of their own data b) derive material value from Crashlytics, Mixpanel and other "tracking tools" for their work It's tricky to reconcile those two ideas.

As an avid amateur student of human behaviour, I appreciate your keen eye for this. I actually don't think it's tricky to reconcile the two. The people conducting the analytics are doing it 'for the right reasons'. The people being analysed don't trust anyone to do anything 'for the right reasons' or without some amount of scope creep around the edges of 'the right reasons'. Self versus someone else. I've got the bes…

Intuitively I'd agree that "best intentions of self vs. others" is probably the mechanism behind this type of cognitive dissonance. What I find harrowing is that in all likelihood, this is true for myself as well in ways that I'm not aware of!

Your point about denial also reminded me of an article a read a couple years ago, attempting to explain why humans deceive themselves. The soft conclusion: we deceive ourselves in order to better deceive others. In this case, we convince ourselves that we have the best intentions in order to convince others of the same. I can't find the exact article, but this is similar and refers to the same research by Robert Trivers. It's an interesting read: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/living-a-lie-we-d...

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#64
post #54

This thread is a really interesting example of how easily humans can simultaneously hold conflicting beliefs/opinions. I'm gathering that a lot of developers and businesspeople here: a) are very concerned about collection of their own data b) derive material value from Crashlytics, Mixpanel and other "tracking tools" for their work It's tricky to reconcile those two ideas.

I'm a good example of this. I'm an ad guy and a marketer, and as such I'm much more intimately familiar with how this stuff works, what it collects, and how it is used than most. I'm also going to expand what I say beyond just the world of apps, because it is really applicable to anything digital these days, whether it is in an app or on the web, because I hate thinking of those things in silos. To be a successful ma…

Thanks for your input.

I think the best thing you could do here is to set your moral compass and follow it no matter what. That includes speaking up when the line between "market research" and "surveillance" is crossed under your watch. The fact that you aren't a mindless revenue robot (I have worked with them) is a good start.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#65
post #54

This thread is a really interesting example of how easily humans can simultaneously hold conflicting beliefs/opinions. I'm gathering that a lot of developers and businesspeople here: a) are very concerned about collection of their own data b) derive material value from Crashlytics, Mixpanel and other "tracking tools" for their work It's tricky to reconcile those two ideas.

I'm a good example of this. I'm an ad guy and a marketer, and as such I'm much more intimately familiar with how this stuff works, what it collects, and how it is used than most. I'm also going to expand what I say beyond just the world of apps, because it is really applicable to anything digital these days, whether it is in an app or on the web, because I hate thinking of those things in silos. To be a successful ma…

I worked on a growth team so I confirm that you need data, but you can do a lot with agregate data. For example, you can run a campaign and see how that influences high-level metrics like total pagelands (using some kind of first-touch attribution model) and stuff like that. You don't always need individual user data points.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#66
post #54

This thread is a really interesting example of how easily humans can simultaneously hold conflicting beliefs/opinions. I'm gathering that a lot of developers and businesspeople here: a) are very concerned about collection of their own data b) derive material value from Crashlytics, Mixpanel and other "tracking tools" for their work It's tricky to reconcile those two ideas.

I'm a good example of this. I'm an ad guy and a marketer, and as such I'm much more intimately familiar with how this stuff works, what it collects, and how it is used than most. I'm also going to expand what I say beyond just the world of apps, because it is really applicable to anything digital these days, whether it is in an app or on the web, because I hate thinking of those things in silos. To be a successful ma…

> My guess is the people who have such black and white views haven't ever been tasked with marketing a product in a true professional capacity

This is so, so true and in such a broad way. I've had this thought gnawing at me for ages that these people who are doing seemingly evil things (think James Comey, Ajit Pai) have likely been tested in ways I never have. Who knows how I would handle being in their situation? I don't think it excuses or absolves true wrongdoing, but it does give me some sympathy or at least reasonable doubt of malice. This an elementary concept, but it never seems to get mentioned.

To be clear, I'm not one of the people who categorically hates your profession. I'm an advocate of privacy, I avoid most types of social media, use uBlock, etc. But I can see it being hard to figure out where the line is, and how to not cross it. I've never worked in the consumer/media/ads world and had to face the "what to track" dilemma head-on.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#67
post #13

The surprising part to me is that it's only 3/4. I assume the rest are not doing any real analytics. Of course they are using 3rd party tools, because the software and infrastructure required to do meaningful analytics on a large user base is way beyond what any startup or independent developer can afford to invest. There aren't even decent Open Source options - Google Analytics long ago sucked the air out of Open So…

haha

I came to say exactly this

Mobile engineer here, I don't know any mobile app without some form of tracking because at the very least you want to know when your app crashes and have a way to get the stacktrace.

Enter firebase crashreporting / crashlytics

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#68
post #2

I wonder if there is a comparable study for iOS apps? Or are there iOS versions of "Tinder, Spotify, Uber and OKCupid" better than the Android counterparts. > Both of these trackers have been profiled by Privacy Lab and can be identified by Exodus scans . I have tried looking up Exodus but can't find any info. Anyone knows what this tool and how does it work?

mobile dev here.

From my anecdotal experience I can tell you that whatever data we collect on Android we collect on iOS too (crashes, usage, etc) .

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#69
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but I guess it seems to be a non-story to developers because the first thing you do prior to launch is add telemetry for user behavior and app performance.

Exactly. Every website and every mobile app, android and iOS, where the devs and/or product management are competent at all, are tracking your behaviors. That is how they know whether each and every feature is working well or not. The articles on this recently are just making a stink over nothing. Imagine trying to run any kind of business without being able to observe how your customers are interacting with your pro…

That is how they know whether each and every feature is working well or not.

How does this explain the "quality" of Snapchat and Tinder?

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#70
post #54

This thread is a really interesting example of how easily humans can simultaneously hold conflicting beliefs/opinions. I'm gathering that a lot of developers and businesspeople here: a) are very concerned about collection of their own data b) derive material value from Crashlytics, Mixpanel and other "tracking tools" for their work It's tricky to reconcile those two ideas.

Everyone has bills to pay, I understand. You're not doing anything really evil like joining the SS.
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