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Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

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Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#121

Post by throw409452 »

danso wrote: post #78
clamprecht wrote: post #47

Last paragraph of the article: "The new authentication scheme is the second in recent weeks that relies on photos. Earlier this month, Facebook asked users to upload nude photos to Facebook Messenger, as part of an effort to prevent revenge porn. Facebook said it would use the nude photos to create a digital fingerprint against which to compare future posts." Wait what? I had to check whether today was April 1st.

There was a thread about this on HN -- too lazy to look it up now or repeat some of the longer comments about it. But going into this assuming that FB has no ill-intentions, FB's proposal seems by far the best solution in a world of ugly and terrible solutions. For starters, it's intended for victims of revenge porn, which is a fairly extreme category and one in which the harassment is distinctively aggressive and vi…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15651710

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15648080

https://www.google.com/search?q=ycombinator+fb+revenge+porn

> too lazy to look it up now

People doing this frustrates me greatly. You had to type 30 key strokes. ⌘+t "ycombinator fb revenge porn" ↵ and paste the results back. How many people are going to read your comment? Maybe 10% of them want to read those links. You spared yourself a trivial amount effort by offloading it to tens or hundreds of others.

I wish people would provide links and source what they say more often. Maybe more discussion sites should let others suggest edits, like on stackoverflow. We could save some of that wasted effort.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#122

Post by obmelvin »

eternalban wrote: post #119
josephpmay wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure Facebook already has plenty of training data of faces

Excuse me. The issue is biometrics. "We'll delete the picture" =/= "we'll delete the control points and features extracted from your pics".

Is there any precedent for recovering individual training items from a model trained on 100m+ examples?

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#123

Post by danso »

Splines wrote: post #120
danso wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a thread about this on HN -- too lazy to look it up now or repeat some of the longer comments about it. But going into this assuming that FB has no ill-intentions, FB's proposal seems by far the best solution in a world of ugly and terrible solutions. For starters, it's intended for victims of revenge porn, which is a fairly extreme category and one in which the harassment is distinctively aggressive and vi…

I disagree: - It sets a precedent for uploading nude photos to FB and for them asking for it. - You need to trust FB to delete the photos when they receive it. Yes, I understand that they probably will, but really, how many systems are those bits going to touch? How many logs are going to have this information? Can you be really sure? A better implementation would be for the FB client to hash the file and for the has…

> - It sets a precedent for uploading nude photos to FB and for them asking for it.

Before we reduce this to a slippery slope, what scenario do you envision in which FB could coax its userbase to upload nude photos? I know the OP is about taking a selfie to prove existence. What would FB use as the basis to mandate the general user to send a self-nude?

> You need to trust FB to delete the photos when they receive it...can you really be sure?

No, never, of course. But that's why I point out that FB already has this potential vector of attack. Every time a user flags content for abuse, that is logged and presumably a copy of the asset made for manual verification. Nevermind all the sensitive content millions of users everyday send across Messenger or private groups.

> A better implementation would be for the FB client to hash the file and for the hash to be uploaded.

If the image is hashed before it reaches FB servers, then it gives every user the power and impunity to attempt to censor via a Content-ID like approach.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#124

Post by csydas »

659087 wrote: post #75
oblib wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not really. There are not many of photos of me on the web and any that are were taken from a distance and too low res to id me. I've been stingy about that for a long time. FB doesn't have my phone number and I disabled the email address I used to sign up. I delete all my cookies often and use different browsers and turn off and reset my modem to get a new IP address. I have no apps on my phone, don't use iCloud,…

> FB doesn't have my phone number If anyone who has you in their contact list uses Facebook, I can pretty much guarantee they have your number.

Yeah this is the real rub; even if you yourself do not give Facebook information, it's been proven that they collect profiles on you. Anyone who has messaged you, has you in their contacts, sent you invites, added you to groups, all this gets added to a hidden profile. You are being tracked whether you gave out info or not.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#126

Post by contingencies »

cbhl wrote: post #97

Sure, Facebook might delete your photo when they're done, but they probably won't delete any machine learning models that they trained using it.

... and the new iphone also wants to "set up FaceID", and Samsung's S8+ literally says "Face Recognition: Register your face." / "Fingerprint Scanner: Add your fingerprints." / "Iris Scanner: Register your irises".

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#127

Post by Tharkun »

I was recently locked out of my FB account. The only way to unlock it was to identify my friends' pictures. Apparently sending me an e-mail was too much trouble ...

Haven't been able to log in since, as I refuse to partake in that sort of bullshit. Can't say I miss it.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#128

Post by eternalban »

obmelvin wrote: post #122
eternalban wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me. The issue is biometrics. "We'll delete the picture" =/= "we'll delete the control points and features extracted from your pics".

Is there any precedent for recovering individual training items from a model trained on 100m+ examples?

What recovery? You're uploading your pic via your account. It is already associated with you.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#129

Post by richmarr »

cracell wrote: post #94
danso wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a thread about this on HN -- too lazy to look it up now or repeat some of the longer comments about it. But going into this assuming that FB has no ill-intentions, FB's proposal seems by far the best solution in a world of ugly and terrible solutions. For starters, it's intended for victims of revenge porn, which is a fairly extreme category and one in which the harassment is distinctively aggressive and vi…

FB has a no porn policy so wtf do you have verify you are you to get a revenge porn picture removed? "We remove photographs of people displaying genitals or focusing in on fully exposed buttocks. We also restrict some images of female breasts if they include the nipple, but our intent is to allow images that are shared for medical or health purposes. We also allow photos of women actively engaged in breastfeeding or…

Fingerprinting a photo to detect copies is much easier than accurately classify what is and isn't 'pornographic' content.

Classification is a harder problem to begin with, and 'pornographic' is a subjective judgement.

Re: Facebook’s New Captcha Test: 'Upload a Clear Photo of Your Face'

#130

Post by pishpash »

eternalban wrote: post #119
josephpmay wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure Facebook already has plenty of training data of faces

Excuse me. The issue is biometrics. "We'll delete the picture" =/= "we'll delete the control points and features extracted from your pics".

Yes, I guess it depends on what "picture" covers legally. Is a bijectively transformed version of your picture the same "picture"? How about a degraded version? How about a 3D model of your face?
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