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In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

nytimes.com

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Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#91

Post by wazoox »

sliverstorm wrote: post #62
harscoat wrote: post #24

21st Century, that anybody can argue against (in this thread or elsewhere) that going by bike to work is way better, healthier, more humanly fulfilling, than by car leaves me speechless. Vote for mayors pro bike roads or ask for showers at work, there is always a solution.

I'm not going to say that we should all be in cars, but I used to ride my bicycle everywhere- I ride motorcycles now, and I still get a lot of the upsides- open to the environment, a physical activity (though more mild than biking at a hard pace), and my stress levels are lower. But it has one more huge upside; back when I bicycled all the time, I'd always arrive everywhere hot and sweaty. Workplaces can install show…

> I live rather close to my job, and it would still take > me 1-2 hours to get there by bicycle.

Funny, I live as far as is bearable from my job, and it would take me a bit more than 1 hour to get there by bicycle (and 35 to 45 minutes by car). How your scales can be stretched by motor vehicles :)

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#92

Post by limmeau »

ugh wrote: post #65
limmeau wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the U-Bahn's policy on taking along bikes?

Not during rush hour (6-9am, 4-6pm), and your bike needs a ticket (€2.50/day). http://www.muenchen.de/verticals/Mobilitaet/Fahrrad/Rad_U_S_... That’s not very friendly, I wouldn’t use that except in emergencies. That’s probably why you don’t see bikes on the U-Bahn.

In Freiburg, you can only take them along in trains, not buses or tramways, and it costs an unreduced adult ticket most of the time on most of the lines. You can't even buy your bike its own monthly pass. So while the city itself is bike-friendly, its public transportation is at most bike-tolerant.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#94

Post by philwelch »

bitboxer wrote: post #12
ugh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bikes are great, but not very practical … if the infrastructure isn’t there. You know, city planning and stuff. I think the goal is not to get people to drive 50 miles to work, the goal is to make it possible for them to live so close to work (or appropriate public transport infrastructure) that they can bike there (or use public transport). You are right, bikes wouldn’t work in every case but sometimes they can repl…

Same can be said about cars :) .

The United States is a nationwide experiment in designing car-friendly infrastructure, and it's a complete disaster. No matter how many lanes the freeways have they're still stop-and-go at rush hour.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#95

Post by jacquesm »

tiki12revolt wrote: post #90
jacquesm wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixies (fixed gear bicycles) are illegal in traffic in almost all places and are intended for track use only.

I'm not exactly sure that is true. If they have a brake mount and at least one brake, they are street legal. Do you have a source for your assertion?

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20090630-20291.html

http://bikeportland.org/2006/07/28/judge-finds-fault-with-fi...

Indeed, mounting at least one brake seems to satisfy that particular judge.

http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/10251/Riding_Cool_fi...

So, yes, again, you can mount 'a brake' and be legal in some places but not everywhere, the whole thrill here seems to come from not having all that 'stuff' on the bike.

If you've ever done any serious bicycling then you realise that the fixed wheel bike has no other place than the track.

In traffic you'd have to be an artist to safely ride one and the problem with them being in traffic is not just that you'd have to be an artist but also that circumstances can determine what is safe and what is not.

Brakes are used for normal reduction in speed, in such cases a fixed gear will do, after all, all you're doing is removing energy from the 'system' (bike + rider) in the same way you put it in, through your leg muscles.

But brakes have a second function as well, which is to react to traffic conditions, things outside of your control. And you may find that you need to remove energy from the 'system' a lot quicker than you originally put it in.

For a bike with a fixed gear (one without a freewheel) this will mandate you to continue to make pedalling motions while you are using that other brake. If the reason why you need to brake stops you from doing that you are now in deep trouble because you will find two nice sized hammers roughly where your pedals used to be that are pounding the crap out of your legs, which can easily cause you to completely lose control of your bike. If you happen to be unbalanced a pedal can strike the road with incredible force and if your foot happens to be between the pedal and the road that's really bad.

So, where-ever the legislation hasn't caught up yet with fixed gear bikes being outlawed because of the 'trend' will sooner or later do so because they're simply not as safe as bikes that have freewheels.

It's a pity for the few people that started this trend and that know their stuff and are only endangering themselves, but now that the masses are flooding in and are copying the couriers legislation seems to be the answer taken by the authorities.

In the Netherlands, bicycle country #2 after China I believe they've been illegal since 1950 or so.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#96

Post by starkfist »

jacquesm wrote: post #95
tiki12revolt wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not exactly sure that is true. If they have a brake mount and at least one brake, they are street legal. Do you have a source for your assertion?

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20090630-20291.html http://bikeportland.org/2006/07/28/judge-finds-fault-with-fi... Indeed, mounting at least one brake seems to satisfy that particular judge. http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/10251/Riding_Cool_fi... So, yes, again, you can mount 'a brake' and be legal in some places but not everywhere, the whole thrill here seems to come from not having all that 'stuff' on the b…

I've ridden a fixed gear bike exclusively for the past 15 years. (alright, that's not exactly true... I have a dutch bike for groceries and recently bought a Brompton for traveling) It was built for me by the patron saint of internet cyclists, Sheldon Brown (RIP).

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html

You just need a front brake to dump speed, and ride a gearing suitable for your environment. For instance, in NYC this is about 42/16.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#97

Post by whatajoke »

brc wrote: post #66

I get the point - and I support the development of car-free suburbs for people who want them. Streets safe for children, people saying hello instead of staring from behind closed windows, etc. Less local pollution, more friendly streets, less accidents : all pluses. I just don't want to see some zealot telling me I can't have a car, and that I am some sort of evil person for having one. Further, not everywhere is sui…

> I just don't want to see some zealot telling me I can't have a car, and that I am some sort of evil person for having one.

Not everybody thinks about you when choosing the people they want to live with. You argue like a conservative asshole berating a bunch of hippies for choosing their own way of life.

> What I'm saying : there should be no laws against this type of thing, and no laws saying you should do it. Entirely personal choice all round.

That is entirely upto the people living in those subuebs. If they decide that you should drive your car around rather than through their suburb, then I don't see how it violates your personal freedom. Next you will be bitching about congestion charges.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#98

Post by CaptainDecisive »

harscoat wrote: post #41
gritzko wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netherlands is a really rainy country. Still, bikes are extremely popular, like the average is 2 bikes per person. The typical commute scheme is (1) bike to the station, then (2) train (trains are good, really good), then (3) another bike to work.

To illustrate the "humanely fulfilling": while students in Rotterdam, we had to ride our bikes back 5km from a pub... it just started raining, but while biking the sky literaly fell on us. We arrived soaking wet, drenched. Among us, this remains one of our best memories.

I hear you. I remember when I lived in Manhattan on the Upper East Side coming back from a party somewhere in deepest darkest Queens, getting off the subway and biking up the path along the East River. Middle of the night and bucketing with rain. My roomie and I were riding mountain bikes and played all the way home, jumping off every little bump in sight and charging through all the puddles. We got back to our apartment soaking wet, grinning from ear to ear like little boys. And yup, it's one of my favourite memories from living in Manhattan.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#99

Post by monos »

brc wrote: post #66

I get the point - and I support the development of car-free suburbs for people who want them. Streets safe for children, people saying hello instead of staring from behind closed windows, etc. Less local pollution, more friendly streets, less accidents : all pluses. I just don't want to see some zealot telling me I can't have a car, and that I am some sort of evil person for having one. Further, not everywhere is sui…

  > I just don't want to see some zealot telling me I can't have a car,
  > and that I am some sort of evil person for having one.
I am not saying you are a bad person, but giving a car to everyone - like we do right now - is a terrible idea.

I'm hoping for legislation that will ban private persons from buying cars. No one (...) needs half a ton of metal and 70PS to move his 70kg ass.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#100

Post by jacquesm »

starkfist wrote: post #96
jacquesm wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20090630-20291.html http://bikeportland.org/2006/07/28/judge-finds-fault-with-fi... Indeed, mounting at least one brake seems to satisfy that particular judge. http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/10251/Riding_Cool_fi... So, yes, again, you can mount 'a brake' and be legal in some places but not everywhere, the whole thrill here seems to come from not having all that 'stuff' on the b…

I've ridden a fixed gear bike exclusively for the past 15 years. (alright, that's not exactly true... I have a dutch bike for groceries and recently bought a Brompton for traveling) It was built for me by the patron saint of internet cyclists, Sheldon Brown (RIP). http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html You just need a front brake to dump speed, and ride a gearing suitable for your environment. For instance, in NYC th…

Going fast and having just a front brake can easily cause you to do a forward flip. 80% of your stopping power is in the front brake, but if you're going very fast engaging the front brake for an emergency stop can make a bad situation worse.

That's a pretty sad story there, I read a bit on his site and he seems to have been a very nice and knowledgeable guy. I'm pretty sure he would have smiled at the way you characterised him, there are worse things that people could say about you after you die.

For an analogue, you can drive in traffic with a car and never touch the brakes, if you're a really good driver and you plan ahead. So, in theory you could remove your brakes and still be safe.

So, now for the obligatory 'think of the children' argument, but it could just as easy be the think of other people in traffic that do unexpected stuff or the mistakes that you yourself might make (nobody is infallible):

Until the day that that toddler walks out in front of you. And then, whether you're in a car or on a bike doing a good clip you're going to be very happy that you have all the stopping power that you could possibly want.

Now a clever counter argument would be that a freewheel cycle with discs on front and rear wheels would offer less stopping power than a fixed gear cycle similarly equipped.

As for bike styles, I have a recumbent (a Zephyr) for fast touring on bike trails but I'd never ever take it in to traffic with vehicles around me (too low), also it has a very large bell on it (and I don't care if people think it's gay), because people are simply not used to bikes doing that sort of speed.

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