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Bitcoin hits $10,000

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Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#81

Post by 0bsidian »

fullshark wrote: post #61
wintom wrote: post #17

“Rosenstreich at online trading firm Swissquote said bitcoin’s surge harks to the surprises of the U.K. referendum on European Union membership and President Trump’s election. “We have underestimated the populist movements,” he said. “There is growing unease on how central banks and governments are managing fiat currencies. Ordinary people globally understand why a decentralized asset is the ultimate safe haven.”” Th…

This is nonsense. This is being driven by speculation / minuscule interest rates / greed. Very little of the demand for btc in the past year is due to lack of faith in institutions.

Let me try to make the case for why Bitcoin could be a useful beyond greed.

I can't really think of many reasons why you would use crypto to pay for a coffee or a sandwich if you live in the West (or frankly, even most developing nations).

On the other hand, I can definitely see the utility in a censorship-resistant digital medium to store wealth. To me, this latter use case has much, much more potential to serve the unbanked (as well as the banked).

Some use cases I can think off the top of my head:

(1) You are from Syria and need to flee war and escape into Europe – however bank transfers into Europe are almost impossible if you are a common Syrian. Bitcoin allows you to take your wealth with you, in your brain, as you escape across the border, by just memorising your twelve word private key.

(2) You are from Venezuela or Zimbabwe – The government has issued capital controls and is devaluing currency by the day. You transfer your wealth into Bitcoin in order to offset capital erosion due to hyper-inflation. When the situation stabilises, you transfer your Bitcoin back into fiat.

(3) You are Saudi billionaire Al-Waleed bin Talal. The government freezes all your assets in a political coup. If you have a portion of your wealth in Bitcoin, you could protect them from government expropriation and anonymously transfer them to associates or family members abroad.

(4) You are whistleblower Julian Assance and have been cut off from the financial system as a way to censor your speech. Bitcoin allows you to have an unbreakable digital "Swiss bank account" that the authorities are not able to reach.

This reminds me of Peter Thiel's recent words about Bitcoin [1]: "it's like a reserve form of money, it's like gold, and it's just a store of value. You don't need to use it to make payments."

Reference: [1] https://www.coindesk.com/peter-thiel-bitcoin-like-reserve-fo...

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#82

Post by benjamincburns »

nly wrote: post #13

I don't follow it but I read somewhere the other day that it now costs tens of dollars worth to actually make a transaction on the blockchain. If this is true then it seems to me that it's effectively become an inter-bank settlement protocol (which may not be that surprising or bad of an outcome given its inherent latency)

> to actually make a transaction on the blockchain

On which blockchain, exactly? On the Ethereum Mainnet you can transact for a fraction of a cent USD and it'll typically be verified (mined into a block) within a minute (often faster).

On the Bitcoin chain you choose your own transaction fee, but if you're not keeping up with market rates your transaction might take quite a long time to be verified (again, mined into a block).

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#83

Post by vthallam »

fullshark wrote: post #61
wintom wrote: post #17

“Rosenstreich at online trading firm Swissquote said bitcoin’s surge harks to the surprises of the U.K. referendum on European Union membership and President Trump’s election. “We have underestimated the populist movements,” he said. “There is growing unease on how central banks and governments are managing fiat currencies. Ordinary people globally understand why a decentralized asset is the ultimate safe haven.”” Th…

This is nonsense. This is being driven by speculation / minuscule interest rates / greed. Very little of the demand for btc in the past year is due to lack of faith in institutions.

Sure, that's how it started. But as the adoption increases and price skyrockets, more people will understand the value of the concept of decentralization.

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#84

Post by bluetwo »

wintom wrote: post #17

“Rosenstreich at online trading firm Swissquote said bitcoin’s surge harks to the surprises of the U.K. referendum on European Union membership and President Trump’s election. “We have underestimated the populist movements,” he said. “There is growing unease on how central banks and governments are managing fiat currencies. Ordinary people globally understand why a decentralized asset is the ultimate safe haven.”” Th…

Errrrr.... Bitcoin is a fiat currency, so be careful with your generalization.

And whose job is it to investigate bitcoin fraud and theft? No one.

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#85

Post by modeless »

Shank wrote: post #42
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #30

The most remarkable aspect of bitcoin is that if Satoshi is a single person, it's the first time in history someone has become a billionaire by themselves. It's not quite that clear cut, but it's not too far off.

The only problem is that Satoshi's coins are watched like a hawk. Satoshi can't liquidate any of them, or even really move them without causing an immediate reaction in the community. Exchanges might halt trading, whilst it would immediately give away his or her identity. If the price of bitcoin doesn't crash following a coin movement, Satoshi's life is most certainly at risk. If it does, then the coins are worth not…

Satoshi is almost certainly dead. No living person could resist the temptation to talk about their creation of a 100 billion dollar phenomenon. Two plausible candidates who died at about the right time are Hal Finney and Dave Kleiman.

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#86

Post by knieveltech »

fullshark wrote: post #78
pishpash wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold is used in electronics. It's actually a good conductor. Bitcoin is not even good for transactions, its supposed primary purpose, right now.

It’s good for anonymous worldwide transactions. It has proven itself there and there will always be some demand for that.

For stuff like cocaine and porn maybe. I can't buy a cheeseburger or pay my rent with it.

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#87

Post by cryptoz »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #30

The most remarkable aspect of bitcoin is that if Satoshi is a single person, it's the first time in history someone has become a billionaire by themselves. It's not quite that clear cut, but it's not too far off.

Nobody in this world does anything 'by themselves' by any reasonable definition. Satoshi built incredible things on the shoulders of other incredible things, like roads, the internet, computers, etc.

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#88

Post by sytelus »

mtgx wrote: post #37
wintom wrote: post #17

“Rosenstreich at online trading firm Swissquote said bitcoin’s surge harks to the surprises of the U.K. referendum on European Union membership and President Trump’s election. “We have underestimated the populist movements,” he said. “There is growing unease on how central banks and governments are managing fiat currencies. Ordinary people globally understand why a decentralized asset is the ultimate safe haven.”” Th…

I've seen comments saying "unlike bitcoin, gold has intrinsic value!" on HN for years. It never made sense to me. Like Bitcoin, gold is only valuable because we think it is and we want it to be (and because it's relatively scarce, too, just like Bitcoin is). Same with diamonds. Their functional value is relatively small in comparison to their "beauty" and scarcity values.

That is not correct. Gold actually has uses in manufacturing all kind of goods. In many manufacturing processes its irreplaceable. It has historical significance that is ingrained in virtually every culture (i.e. everyone grows up thinking gold as valuable thing due to stories you hear as kid). Jewelry made out of gold looks great, doesn't get rusty and you can keep it for centuries without needing any technology. Even if humankind is driven back to stone age, you can probably still count on gold to barter for other valuable goods. Most importantly, despite the humongous efforts over centuries, gold is still as rare as it was thousands of years ago. This inability to produce it out of thin air (unlike dollars or even bitcoins) what makes its usage as currency possible. None of these things you can say for bitcoin or any other currencies. They are just bits floating around in cyberspace.

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#89

Post by mrb »

chii wrote: post #48
mrb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A logarithmic scale is the proper way to show an exponentially increasing value.

But nowhere as impressive looking as a hockey stick graph.

True but the point isn't to be impressive, but to be scientifically precise.

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#90

Post by [deleted] »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #40
narrator wrote: post #4

7 years ago: The first bitcoin article on HN with comments! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1532670 One of the posters says the feds will shut it down. I also thought this too. This remains one of the most enduring mysteries of Bitcoin to me. Why has the government taken such a hands off approach?

How does a government stop it? And if they could, could they also stop illegal file sharing in a similar way?

[deleted]
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