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In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

nytimes.com

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Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#11

Post by ugh »

bobbyflanders wrote: post #8

In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? In many parts of the USA, it is very humid and temperatures can easily reach 90 and above. How do you expect people to bike in such conditions? In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. Bikes are great, but not very practical.

Bikes are great, but not very practical … if the infrastructure isn’t there. You know, city planning and stuff. I think the goal is not to get people to drive 50 miles to work, the goal is to make it possible for them to live so close to work (or appropriate public transport infrastructure) that they can bike there (or use public transport).

You are right, bikes wouldn’t work in every case but sometimes they can replace cars just fine.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#12

Post by bitboxer »

ugh wrote: post #11
bobbyflanders wrote: post #8

In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? In many parts of the USA, it is very humid and temperatures can easily reach 90 and above. How do you expect people to bike in such conditions? In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. Bikes are great, but not very practical.

Bikes are great, but not very practical … if the infrastructure isn’t there. You know, city planning and stuff. I think the goal is not to get people to drive 50 miles to work, the goal is to make it possible for them to live so close to work (or appropriate public transport infrastructure) that they can bike there (or use public transport). You are right, bikes wouldn’t work in every case but sometimes they can repl…

Same can be said about cars :) .

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#13

Post by masklinn »

bobbyflanders wrote: post #8

In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? In many parts of the USA, it is very humid and temperatures can easily reach 90 and above. How do you expect people to bike in such conditions? In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. Bikes are great, but not very practical.

> In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat?

With enough training (build up the habit) and if you don't exert yourself too much (it's not like you have to go 20mph all the way), you shouldn't sweat too much. Add in a pair of showers on work site and you're golden.

> In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car.

That's an issue of brain-dead urban planning and stupid personal housing considerations, not of bikes.

> Bikes are great, but not very practical.

The article, and all of Amsterdam or Münster, already prove you wrong. Why do you make declamations which are already disproven before they even get out your mouth?

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#14

Post by masklinn »

davidu wrote: post #10
bobbyflanders wrote: post #8

In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? In many parts of the USA, it is very humid and temperatures can easily reach 90 and above. How do you expect people to bike in such conditions? In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. Bikes are great, but not very practical.

It gets humid in Europe, too. They survive.

Most of Europe is far drier than the US. I don't know of any place in Europe which would be similar to Japan or Florida (consistent high heat and very high humidity during months on end in Summer), though they might very well exist.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#15

Post by derefr »

bobbyflanders wrote: post #8

In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? In many parts of the USA, it is very humid and temperatures can easily reach 90 and above. How do you expect people to bike in such conditions? In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. Bikes are great, but not very practical.

Perhaps people would be better off not living in these places where it's impossible to survive without a climate-controlled bubble-environment :)

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#16

Post by organicgrant »

masklinn wrote: post #13
bobbyflanders wrote: post #8

In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? In many parts of the USA, it is very humid and temperatures can easily reach 90 and above. How do you expect people to bike in such conditions? In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. Bikes are great, but not very practical.

> In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? With enough training (build up the habit) and if you don't exert yourself too much (it's not like you have to go 20mph all the way), you shouldn't sweat too much. Add in a pair of showers on work site and you're golden. > In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. That's an issue of brain-de…

If you choose to live 50+ miles from work and commute everyday...you're making a compromise for a reason (spouse, slow real estate market, etc). But likely...you're doing it wrong. I am seeing an emergence of physically aware programmers who realize sitting in a chair all day isn't an healthy environment. Biking to and from work gives some great exercise and time to clear your head.

pg gets ideas in the shower. I get them cruising on the bike. Same effect.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#17

Post by bobbyflanders »

masklinn wrote: post #13
bobbyflanders wrote: post #8

In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? In many parts of the USA, it is very humid and temperatures can easily reach 90 and above. How do you expect people to bike in such conditions? In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. Bikes are great, but not very practical.

> In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? With enough training (build up the habit) and if you don't exert yourself too much (it's not like you have to go 20mph all the way), you shouldn't sweat too much. Add in a pair of showers on work site and you're golden. > In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. That's an issue of brain-de…

All great solutions, but the infrastructure just isn't there (as already mentioned).

Blame it in "brain-dead urban planning", or "stupid housing considerations", but that doesn't change the fact that biking to work is simply not possible for most people.

If you live in the suburbs of New York, biking to Manhattan to work just isn't practical. If you live in the middle of the country, biking to work can be a nightmare. If you live down South, again, very difficult. If you live in San Francisco, hope that your job is downhill.

Let's build a better infrastructure, and not accuse people of being inconsiderate or stupid.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#18

Post by organicgrant »

organicgrant wrote: post #16
masklinn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? With enough training (build up the habit) and if you don't exert yourself too much (it's not like you have to go 20mph all the way), you shouldn't sweat too much. Add in a pair of showers on work site and you're golden. > In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. That's an issue of brain-de…

If you choose to live 50+ miles from work and commute everyday...you're making a compromise for a reason (spouse, slow real estate market, etc). But likely...you're doing it wrong. I am seeing an emergence of physically aware programmers who realize sitting in a chair all day isn't an healthy environment. Biking to and from work gives some great exercise and time to clear your head. pg gets ideas in the shower. I get…

OMG, there's another trending topic right now "Exercise Boosts Your Brain - Here's How" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1580236

I believe that post will also feed hungry trolls

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#19

Post by noonespecial »

bitboxer wrote: post #3

I lived in Münster, Germany for a few years. Münster is THE bike town in germany. Statistically every citizen has 1.8 bikes. And i begann to love biking there. A lot is done in that city to make biking the #1 way of transportation. Now I am living in Cologne, Germany and see the difference. I miss the good bike lanes but I kept biking in cologne. Nothing is better for your head than biking a few miles home after a ha…

I lived in Frankfurt for many years when I was young and just took for granted the fact that I could bike just about anywhere without tangling with cars. Paths through the forest, farm roads, bike paths through towns, one could just ride forever.

When I returned to the USA where I was born, I noticed that every American had a gaggle of dusty, low quality bikes in their garages that never got used. There were no bike paths anywhere and riding on the roads looked like suicide. I once asked someone why they even had the bikes; where do you ride them? He answered without hesitation that you could load the bikes in the car and drive across town to where there was a park with a bike trail. I though it was a quick witted joke (load the bikes in the car and drive to ride them).

It was not.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#20

Post by Niten »

bobbyflanders wrote: post #8

In other words, I should come into work completely drenched in sweat? In many parts of the USA, it is very humid and temperatures can easily reach 90 and above. How do you expect people to bike in such conditions? In addition, many people commute long distances to work, which may take up to an hour just by car. Bikes are great, but not very practical.

I often bike to work, which for me is about 26 miles each direction. I take a shower right before I leave, and when I get there I just have to rinse down and change out of my cycling jersey. The theory behind the pre-ride shower is that body odor is caused by bacteria on your skin, and showering temporarily knocks out enough of your bacteria that it won't cause significant odor during your ride. (I'm not aware of actual science on this topic, but I've asked a trusted coworker whether I smell after riding into work, and he says I don't. So there's your anecdotal data point...) So for me the bike is extremely practical even living in an area that wasn't designed with bicycles in mind.

As for humidity, this is in south Florida—if we can manage it here, then we can handle the humidity pretty much anywhere in the US.

Now I'm not saying everyone can or should bike a 52-mile round trip to work. But the point of this article is that this little experimental suburb has 5,500 people within a single square mile; biking or walking is a perfectly reasonable way to traverse such a small area at nearly any level of fitness, especially when you don't have to worry about automotive traffic, and for the few people who can't manage that there's the public transport option. Even on our hottest days here in south Florida, one can easily bike a mile, fully dressed, without breaking a sweat.

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