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Vanguard Founder Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’

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Re: Vanguard Founder Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’

#131

Post by lern_too_spel »

jozzas wrote: post #53
justadudeama wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what makes it a good value store, with all of it volatility?

nothing at the moment, it's being used as a speculative investment. I imagine in time the volatility will reduce as other cryptocurrencies become more mainstream and actually used for real-world purposes.

Reduce volatility by having its price approach zero? What use is Bitcoin if another cryptocurrency wins? Where can you find the greater fool to sell your Bitcoins to if it has no practical purpose and has been superceded by other currencies.

Re: Vanguard Founder Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’

#132

Post by lern_too_spel »

westurner wrote: post #78
pdog wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty disrespectful to Jack Bogle. Vanguard is almost singlehandedly responsible for returning trillions of dollars of costs, in the form of fees and underperformance by active managers, back to investors. Millions of investors have benefited.

Bitcoin has been a bubble since $1 and $100 to these people.

What evidence is there that it isn't a bubble? People buy Bitcoin only because they think they can sell it higher. Eventually, you will run out of greater fools.

Re: Vanguard Founder Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’

#133

Post by xtracto »

> It’s “crazy” to invest in the digital asset, he added. “Bitcoin may well go to $20,000 but that won’t prove I’m wrong. When it gets back to $100, we’ll talk.”

One more in the many death's of bitcoin...

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/page/10/

Re: Vanguard Founder Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’

#134

Post by lern_too_spel »

erebus_rex wrote: post #73
betterunix2 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll see how well Bitcoin does during the next recession. Plenty of investments seem great when the markets and economy are doing well, but turn into disasters when the markets crash.

I wonder if a crash would be good for Bitcoin's price. I think it is a bubble but it seems like an asset that would gain traction in times of fear/uncertainty in the fiat economy.

People will need to sell their Bitcoins to purchase essentials, but whom will they sell their digital baubles to?

Re: Vanguard Founder Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’

#135

Post by rhino369 »

jorblumesea wrote: post #75
yters wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is like a fiat currency without a fiat.

and without central banking, top tier economists, monetary tools for a bailout, a military and government... It's really not much like a fiat currency at all. The closest thing might be penny stocks.

Bitcoin has a central bank, it just made its decision ahead of time without regard to supply and demand.

Re: Vanguard Founder Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’

#136

Post by cesarb »

landryraccoon wrote: post #111
dsacco wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will happily invest in Bitcoin when its history as a store of value and a medium of exchange is measured in millennia. So is USD out for you too, then? It's not even 300 years old yet. If you mean fiat currency in general, that's also out, as we haven't had that for multiple millennia yet either.

People invest in USD? What does that mean? Currency speculators might arbitrage USD if they think the exchange rate is inaccurate but nobody holds USD because they think the value will go up long term. Holding fiat currency means you lose money constantly due to inflation.

Yes, people do invest in USD. I looked up a random dollar fund (BB Cambial Dólar LP Mil), and its total return over the last 5 years was 73.92%. That's AFAIK significantly more than the accumulated inflation in the same period.

Re: Vanguard Founder Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’

#137

Post by monktastic1 »

thucydides wrote: post #110
jorblumesea wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US Treasury bonds are backed by the military and economic might of a superpower, and the fact that it's an IOU that's almost bulletproof. That's a really big part of their value. It's the safest investment possible which is why governments funnel money into treasuries. Bitcoin just has the power of faith in the network and that liquidity will exist when you want to cash out. Neither of which is certain. Bitcoin reall…

I've heard many people say this, and it seemed sensible enough at first. But on further thought, I sincerely can't make sense of it. Dollars are just green pieces of paper. We accept them for goods and services because... everyone ELSE agrees to accept them for goods and services. It's circular. How is the might of the US military relevant here? If you lived in South Korea, would you accept the South Korean won, or w…

> How is the might of the US military relevant here?

If I understand correctly, it's because nobody's going to come and steal our resources. Of course, given the relative peace in the world, probably nobody is going to steal South Korea's either....

Re: Vanguard Founder Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’

#138

Post by nostrademons »

uncoder0 wrote: post #125
nostrademons wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the 7 years from 1993-2000, a portfolio of stocks with ".com" in the name far outperformed every other asset class out there. If you held that portfolio for the 7 years following, from 2000-2007, you would most likely go bankrupt.

How does one go bankrupt from holding an asset?

The "most likely" in that statement is in the sense that you still need to eat, and so if all you've got are assets that are worth 1/100th of what you paid for them, you're probably pretty deeply in debt in the rest of your finances. In the dot-com boom, it wasn't uncommon for people to mortgage their homes to buy stocks, to quit their day jobs to day-trade stocks, or to owe hundreds of thousands in AMT on stocks that were worth less than the tax bill when it came due, all situations that could and did lead to bankruptcy.

Re: Vanguard Founder Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’

#139

Post by kelnos »

alejohausner wrote: post #123
akozak wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no financial advisor, but I'd fire the person who recommended I buy gold as a long term investment.

Actually gold is a very good long term investment. Here are some year-end closing prices: Year gold S&P500 1972: 64 118 2015: 1060 2044 Ratio: 16.5 17.3 True, gold does not have a yield, but it has gone up a lot over the years.

Cherry-picking two dates doesn't really tell us much. Volatility year-over year would be useful to see, and, as they say, past performance is not an indicator of future earnings. A decision to invest (or not invest) in gold should be based on your current expectation of the future.

Re: Vanguard Founder Jack Bogle Says ‘Avoid Bitcoin Like the Plague’

#140

Post by rhino369 »

jozzas wrote: post #29

Bitcoin is becoming a value store. With slow transaction confirmation and high fees, what are the real-world applications for Bitcoin supposed to be now? And for those applications, are there not other cryptocurrencies more specifically targeted at being better at that application?

Nobody keeps bitcoin to store value. They keep it because they think it will appreciate in value. Why? Because of has went up in the past.

If people lose faith that it will keep going up, then it stops holding value.

It’s pure speculation based on the greater fool theory.

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