Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Big tech is built on predatory pricing

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 99 posts

Re: Big tech is built on predatory pricing

#81

Post by yazan94 »

n_time wrote: post #76
yazan94 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These policies of "harassment complaint", reputation, and recourse systems seem to me a bit like "you will be safe from indecent people". FTFY

My point was that these services are using technical terminology to soften and obscure the stratifying of spaces based on power/money. You've responded by softening the terminology again. I see others pointing out in sub-threads that these services are better than buses because there are "no hobos, gangstas, creeps, drunkards or other people creating a nuisance for fellow travellers". Should I break down those labels…

> Should I break down those labels and across which lines they are dividing society? :)

Are you implying that only 'lower-class' people are "hobos, gangstas, creeps, drunkards or other people creating a nuisance"? I ride public transit daily, and there is a non-trivial number of 'high-class' people that make riding the metro a pain (The subway is full, why are you pushing and shoving to get in if there is another subway coming in 60 seconds?)

There are probably people who wouldn't want to take public transit because of the list of people strictly because they deem themselves above or as better than the "hobos, gangstas, creeps, drunkards". With no evidence to back my claim, I would argue that the majority of people who would opt for Uber over public transit do so because of lower cost, convenience, and "other people creating a nuisance for fellow travellers"

Re: Big tech is built on predatory pricing

#82

Post by dpatru »

TheDong wrote: post #57
stale2002 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, maybe it hurts competitors, but how in the world does it mess with public transportation? Public transportation can't handle the load across the country. If everyone starts using VC subsidized services, that FIXES the public transportation under capacity problem. Public transportation loses money. So if people find something better or cheaper, then all the better!

> Ok, maybe it hurts competitors, but how in the world does it mess with public transportation? ... If everyone starts using VC subsidized services... If no one uses public transit, public transit will be hurt clearly. The real risk though is that people who can afford uber start using it, public transit fails, and then uber increases its price since people have fewer options. > Public transportation loses money. So…

> There have been a few studies that show accessible public transit is a huge factor in benefiting the poor.

No doubt being able to travel is a huge benefit. But this does not require public transport. The poor could be given Uber-vouchers.

Re: Big tech is built on predatory pricing

#83

Post by m0llusk »

Capitalism ultimately requires basic disclosure of product content, manufacture, and other costs. Simply informing people of the percentage of spreadsheet magic in offerings along with the ingredients, labor costs, and so on could allow market to observe and react to this kind of thing without external regulation.

Re: Big tech is built on predatory pricing

#84

Post by tomjen3 »

n_time wrote: post #66
secabeen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One factor is the reputation/blacklist system. If you are harrassed on a bus, you don't have much recourse. Sure, you can complain to the metro police, but all they can do is take a report. On a shared ride like this, Uber/Lyft can increment the "harassment complaint" counter of all of the other riders with you. A regular harasser will quickly add up multiple complaints, and will be banned from the system. Honestly,…

These policies of "harassment complaint", reputation, and recourse systems seem to me a bit like "you will be safe from the unwashed masses". Paid service apartheid?

That is exactly what it is. As a car driver I already get that benefit, but people who cannot afford their own car can now also get higher comfort. Meanwhile free riders get punished, which gives them an incentive to shape up, thus improving the entire system.

I realize that this is a problem for a very small number of people who really can't conform because they don't have access to showers, but how often are homeless people really riding busses, let alone uber (other than as a place to get warmth, or in being dumped in another state)?

Re: Big tech is built on predatory pricing

#85

Post by HashHishBang »

dpatru wrote: post #82
TheDong wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ok, maybe it hurts competitors, but how in the world does it mess with public transportation? ... If everyone starts using VC subsidized services... If no one uses public transit, public transit will be hurt clearly. The real risk though is that people who can afford uber start using it, public transit fails, and then uber increases its price since people have fewer options. > Public transportation loses money. So…

> There have been a few studies that show accessible public transit is a huge factor in benefiting the poor. No doubt being able to travel is a huge benefit. But this does not require public transport. The poor could be given Uber-vouchers.

They could...or we could keep utilizing the multi-billion dollar investments that have been made in public transportation.

I'm curious as to the arguments that can be made for (presumably government) subsidies for privatized individual transport. I'd be shocked if we see Uber pivot from normal vehicles into mass transit so we have to assume they continue using the current model.

At that point we're offering vouchers for semi-private drivers because...we don't like public transit?

Re: Big tech is built on predatory pricing

#86

Post by TheCoelacanth »

crdoconnor wrote: post #43
basseq wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Uber is doing here should absolutely not be allowed. What Uber is doing is called loss leading. It would be very hard to outlaw or regulate in any sort of "fair" way. The result you fear--a monopoly with price control--is illegal and is tightly regulated.

>The result you fear--a monopoly with price control--is illegal Monopolies are not illegal.

Monopolies are not per se illegal, but it is illegal to create a monopoly.

Re: Big tech is built on predatory pricing

#87

Post by safsdafsa »

Its very important for people here to remember that there are three ways to increase price:

1. I increase the nominal price 2. I decrease the amount I give you 3. I lower the quality of what I give you.

So all the comments that state: "There's no observed increase in price by [insert monopolist]" have to also assert that points 2 and 3 didn't occur.

If I sell you a chocolate bar and I start using food grade wax in increasing quantities I'm effectively increasing the price of chocolate (and recreating Hershey's ;).

So, if I can't reliably buy genuine batteries (or much of anything really) with Amazon and I have to choose between them and Costco, then Amazon's are effectively more expensive.

Not saying amazon is or isn't awesome... but they have been jacking their prices!

Re: Big tech is built on predatory pricing

#88

Post by DrPsyker »

jondubois wrote: post #65
amelius wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would say that almost all VC money goes towards executing various predatory strategies. It's not just VC money. For example, YouTube has been financed by Google search, operating at a loss for many years, driving competitors out of business and raising barriers to entry.

True, what's particularly unfair about it is that the companies tend to use proceeds from an industry in which they have a monopoly to fund their price war in other industries where they don't yet have a monopoly. The strategy seems to be to monopolise each industry one after another, using the proceeds of the previously captured monopoly to capture the next one. If this keeps going, eventually we're going to end up…

This is bang on.

Re: Big tech is built on predatory pricing

#89

Post by DrPsyker »

Veen wrote: post #69
vbrendel wrote: post #16

The article is clearly written by someone who has a vested interest in the incumbents who are now up against Uber and Amazon. Uber burns cash like pretty much any funded startup but there's nothing in the article suggesting their unit economics are flawed. Is the author really suggesting that competition law should force companies like Uber to set their price higher than the competition? It's called disruption for a…

> The article is clearly written by someone who has a vested interest in the incumbents. How is that clear? Have you researched this author and established that they have ties to competitors, or are you just flinging poo with no justification at all? > Uber burns cash like pretty much any funded startup See the title of the article: Big tech is built on predatory pricing

To be clear the author is a friend of mine. He just writes shit that interests him. Believe he has a few tech investments himself as well.

Re: Big tech is built on predatory pricing

#90

Post by vorotato »

crdoconnor wrote: post #43
basseq wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Uber is doing here should absolutely not be allowed. What Uber is doing is called loss leading. It would be very hard to outlaw or regulate in any sort of "fair" way. The result you fear--a monopoly with price control--is illegal and is tightly regulated.

>The result you fear--a monopoly with price control--is illegal Monopolies are not illegal.

Natural monopolies are not illegal, anti-competitive ones however...
Post reply on HN