Ajit Pai is right • Hacker News Board

Re: Ajit Pai is right

#31

Post by thehardsphere » Tue, Nov 28, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

zbruhnke wrote: post #6

This person misses the entire point of the argument for Net Neutrality - Yes it can be convenient if you know ALL of the apps and or services you'd like to use, however the entire internet being visible means putting small companies you have not yet heard of on nearly equal footing - giving them the chance to compete against the giants of commerce and sometimes (yes, sometimes it happens) WIN! The beauty of the inter…

Did I miss some new proposal that Ajit Pai has put forward?

It is my understanding that "The rules Ajit Pai wants in place" were in place from sometime during the ninties or earlier, until 2015. That is, Ajit Pai merely wishes to undo a rule that was only in force from 2015 to the present.

Am I mistaken? Because I think the world you say you don't want to live in is the one we actually did live in for most of the history of the Internet, unless I'm missing something.

Re: Ajit Pai is right

#32

Post by zaksoup » Tue, Nov 28, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

Re: food safety...

> Ayn Rand and Ron Paul walk into a bar. The bartender serves them tainted alcohol. They die. The market reacts and the bar closes because nobody goes there anymore. Ayn Rand and Ron Paul are still dead.

Re: Ajit Pai is right

#33

Post by cbsmith » Tue, Nov 28, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

j2kun wrote: post #15

> It is worth noting, by the way, that BitTorrent users were free-loaders, using massively more bandwidth than the vast majority of Comcast’s customers. I don't think that's how a service agreement works. If I'm paying for a certain bandwidth and latency, I should get that (to within reasonably improbable outages) if I use it 100% of the time or 1% of the time. If the ISP can't keep up, they should be penalized for i…

There's also the reality that the problem is peak bandwidth, not total bytes moved. It turns out... BitTorrent users use less bandwidth during peak and bandwidth caps discourage people from pulling down data they might not use in advance and instead grabbing it just in time during peak bandwidth periods.

Re: Ajit Pai is right

#34

Post by burkaman » Tue, Nov 28, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

thehardsphere wrote: post #31

zbruhnke wrote: post #6

This person misses the entire point of the argument for Net Neutrality - Yes it can be convenient if you know ALL of the apps and or services you'd like to use, however the entire internet being visible means putting small companies you have not yet heard of on nearly equal footing - giving them the chance to compete against the giants of commerce and sometimes (yes, sometimes it happens) WIN! The beauty of the inter…

Did I miss some new proposal that Ajit Pai has put forward? It is my understanding that "The rules Ajit Pai wants in place" were in place from sometime during the ninties or earlier, until 2015. That is, Ajit Pai merely wishes to undo a rule that was only in force from 2015 to the present. Am I mistaken? Because I think the world you say you don't want to live in is the one we actually did live in for most of the his…

You're right that the rules have only been in place since 2015, but you're wrong that we live the the same world we always have. The world has changed, and the rules should change along with it.

Re: Ajit Pai is right

#35

Post by uiri » Tue, Nov 28, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

So the author is saying "look at this thing which people say violates net neutrality but not the net neutrality regulations as written" and uses that as an argument to get rid of the net neutrality regulations altogether? Does this make sense to anyone else? Zero rating is equivalent to charging more for non-zero-rated bandwidth.

Re: Ajit Pai is right

#36

Post by Sumaso » Tue, Nov 28, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

zbruhnke wrote: post #6

This person misses the entire point of the argument for Net Neutrality - Yes it can be convenient if you know ALL of the apps and or services you'd like to use, however the entire internet being visible means putting small companies you have not yet heard of on nearly equal footing - giving them the chance to compete against the giants of commerce and sometimes (yes, sometimes it happens) WIN! The beauty of the inter…

> If the rules Ajit Pai wants in place were to be in place when Amazon got started its likely Wal-Mart could have paid to simply make them disappear for most internet providers by "buying" the right to e-commerce traffic.

Isn't this covered by anti-trust laws?

Re: Ajit Pai is right

#37

Post by adamnemecek » Tue, Nov 28, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

RexM wrote: post #29

adamnemecek wrote: post #2

> There is no evidence of systemic abuse by ISPs governed under Title I, which means there are not immediate benefits to regulation, only theoretical ones False. They've tried in the past I believe. There was something with AT&T and iPhone users around 2010 (IIRC it was about Facetime)? There were more. Also the thing about Portugal and Euros. Yeah that graphic has been circulating for a while now, it predates this d…

I found this list https://www.freepress.net/blog/2017/04/25/net-neutrality-vio... MADISON RIVER: In 2005, North Carolina ISP Madison River Communications blocked the voice-over-internet protocol (VOIP) service Vonage. Vonage filed a complaint with the FCC after receiving a slew of customer complaints. The FCC stepped in to sanction Madison River and prevent further blocking, but it lacks the authority to stop this ki…

Thanks, I was trying to find a good list but somehow couldn't.

Re: Ajit Pai is right

#38

Post by doke01 » Tue, Nov 28, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

"...it wasn’t a net neutrality issue at all: it was an early prototype of what is known as “zero-rating.”"

Zero-rating is a net neutrality issue. It gives preference to one service over others.

Re: Ajit Pai is right

#39

Post by cbsmith » Tue, Nov 28, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

gormo2 wrote: post #16

Ajit Pai did nothing wrong and shouldn't be attacked with as much personal vitriol as we're seeing.

The personal vitriol is just stupid.

However, when you make policy, you totally deserve to have your policy moves criticized.

Re: Ajit Pai is right

#40

Post by adamnemecek » Tue, Nov 28, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

cbsmith wrote: post #25

adamnemecek wrote: post #2

> There is no evidence of systemic abuse by ISPs governed under Title I, which means there are not immediate benefits to regulation, only theoretical ones False. They've tried in the past I believe. There was something with AT&T and iPhone users around 2010 (IIRC it was about Facetime)? There were more. Also the thing about Portugal and Euros. Yeah that graphic has been circulating for a while now, it predates this d…

The article discusses this stuff. That said: guess what? The wireless carrier world currently has exemptions from net neutrality. It's the wired world where these rules apply.

What's your point?