Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…
Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans
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Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans
#52Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…
> This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Voluntarily giving some cash to a school endowment is not getting "bilked".
Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
You still have to pay market rate for professors, executives, maintenance, etc, if you want to stay relevant. You can't just decide to reduce your income and expect nothing else to change. They're changing where their getting the income from, probably with the idea that former students of Brown who are now doing very well, will be willing to pay it forward to a new student who is in a similar position as they used to…
The exploding cost of education over the last generation doesn't boil down to an increase in teaching or even research staff costs. These costs are stable, largely thanks to the very low cost of junior academics. In the US, "administration staff" (everyone else) has blown up by 500% or more, proportionally. There have also been increases in non staff related costs. University' are fancier, more expensive and more inc…
So where, exactly, is all that extra spending really going? Is it going to six or seven extra deans and associate deans? (We have a bunch of people with "associate dean" or similar in their titles, but some of them are actually fairly junior staff members, and my understanding, incomplete as it is, is that their pay reflects that, rather than being what you'd expect for someone with that title.) Is it going to people who are managing the ever-growing presence of technology in the classroom and throughout the institution? That would actually make some sense, as it's a thing that's been growing at around the same time as the apparent increase in spending on staff/admin.
But in general, based on the limited breakdowns I've seen, I'm still puzzled as to where all this extra money is going, as it seems like most of it is not, in fact, going to inflated salaries for the top administrators (though some of it is), and most of what I've actually seen doesn't support the idea that there are massively more people in administration than are actually needed to support the students. The only way that could be true, based on my experience, is if a huge percentage of them (many more than in previous generations) are utterly incompetent, and pulling their weight so poorly that it takes half the time from the competent people just to keep everything moving. While that's not impossible, it seems implausible that such a significant shift could have occurred so quickly.
> ...we cannot afford to give everyone a $150k education. Any solution that builds on the premise that we can is an elitist (or at least elite) model.
I think that calling it elitist is jumping on a bandwagon of derision for that term, when what it should really be called is "unrealistic," "impractical," or just "stupid." In fact, if anything, it's as anti-elitist as anything can be—it's trying to spread the education to everyone, rather than reserving it to the elite purely based on the inconvenient fact that we don't have enough money in our economy to spend that much on everyone.
Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans
#54Lectures are free, same for notes. Exams are paid for. You learn on your own or in groups. With additional paid tutoring on request.
Technology allows everyone to get MIT grade education for free.
Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans
#55Considering the sticker price for an undergrad at Brown in 2013-2016 is approximately $250K, along with the higher median debt loads we're seeing from graduates of less prestigious, cheaper universities, it leads me to believe that these types of elite schools are comprised of two very specific types of students:
1. Wealthy privileged students whose parents pick up the majority of the cost out of pocket.
2. Students from low-income families who receive almost a full ride via government subsidies, private money (scholarships / grants), and the school itself.
Similar to federal and state tax burdens, health care costs, etc., the middle class continues to carry the ever-increasing burden of both the very wealthy and the disenfranchised, while they themselves continue sinking.
Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans
#56What happens when the 120M runs out? Are they putting the alumni permanently on the hook to pay for future incoming students who need financial assistance? The article doesn't address this issue.
I think the purpose of the 120M is to create an endowment from which ~5% can be taken to provide financial aid every year. If their investments perform as hoped, it should last quite some time.
Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans
#57Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…
> Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? Because the Third Associate Dean of Humanities can't fund their $600k salary with the goodwill from a more reasonable tuition. Snark aside, it's because the administrators are attacking a symptom - high tuition prices - and not the illness - administrative bloat and universiti…
Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans
#58Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…
PS: It’s led, not its metallic homonym lead.
Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans
#59This article is from September. Has anyone seen or heard any updates? A quick google didn’t show anything.
Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans
#60Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…
Room and board is about $13K, or slightly more than 1K/month, which seems pretty reasonable.
Rate-card Tuition is 52K, but they have a 7:1 teacher-student ratio ; If you assume each teacher makes 100K/year (not unreasonable for PhDs), that's about 13K just in teacher salaries ... add benefits, offices, etc, and you're at about twice that, so 26K just for faculty; add some for facilities and management, and their cost is probably about 40K/year per student, so a 20-25% markup, doesn't sound unreasonable (and then almost no student pays the sticker price).
High-quality liberal-arts education is really expensive, but it is because it is very labor intensive (both in students and faculty).
BTW, other universities will do it cheaper by either paying their faculty much less (which usually leads to quality problems), or having much larger classes, or crummy facilities, or government subsidies (or all of the above). Community colleges do an amazing job for the price they charge, but it's not the same education :)