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Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

cnbc.com

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Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#21

Post by charlesdm »

Improvotter wrote: post #17
bmcusick wrote: post #2

Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…

I recently met an American here in Europe that mostly grew up here the last few years who wanted to go to NA (more specifically Toronto) for university when she could basically enrol here in a good university for a fraction of the cost. I pay less than a gran every year for my software engineering master's degree and can't fathom someone going to a different country knowing you're gonna be in debt for a large portion…

Ivy League schools have massive endowments, which are essentially huge investment funds. They employ people to invest their money.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#22

Post by junkscience2017 »

mac01021 wrote: post #10
at-fates-hands wrote: post #8

What happens when the 120M runs out? Are they putting the alumni permanently on the hook to pay for future incoming students who need financial assistance? The article doesn't address this issue.

I think the purpose of the 120M is to create an endowment from which ~5% can be taken to provide financial aid every year. If their investments perform as hoped, it should last quite some time.

six million dollars a year, of which some is gobbled up by fees.

Brown has 6500 undergrads...at their current full tuition just the incoming class exceeds that

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#23

Post by wbkang »

Improvotter wrote: post #17
bmcusick wrote: post #2

Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…

I recently met an American here in Europe that mostly grew up here the last few years who wanted to go to NA (more specifically Toronto) for university when she could basically enrol here in a good university for a fraction of the cost. I pay less than a gran every year for my software engineering master's degree and can't fathom someone going to a different country knowing you're gonna be in debt for a large portion…

Canadians university has far lower tuition than the US equivalent. It's also easier to immigrate when you have a Canadian degree so the story might be a bit different for Canada.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#24

Post by onwardly »

bmcusick wrote: post #2

Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…

Because they still want people that can afford to pay $50k/year to pay it. Lowering tuition lowers it for everyone. If your parents make $300k+/year, then you'll still be paying full tuition. But as their income is lower, currently you'll get some need-based financial aid. The problem is that this aid is a combination of "scholarship" and "loans". The goal here is to remove the loan component.

The problem still is that middle-class families get stuck in a gray zone. I went to Brown, and my parents made enough (~$110k) that I didn't get financial aid but they also couldn't pay $40k/year.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#25

Post by nascar_is_bad »

timthelion wrote: post #15
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Brown's tuition for out of state students is just under $50,000 per year per student. Does that mean they could be paying those professors $300,000?

Aren't there other expenses like maintaining the campus and paying for journal subscriptions and research equipment?

are you just listing off the things you think a university spends money on?

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#26

Post by elsherbini »

bmcusick wrote: post #2

Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…

Today's elite schools offer myriad resources to students that they didn't before. And today's elite schools are therefore able to serve a much more diverse group of students.

I think administrative costs have gone up too much and have space to cut back. But when articles come out saying administrative costs have ballooned 500%, I don't want people to imagine that it's all wasted - most of the new positions represent new services provided to students.

And in anticipation of the argument that "I don't need those services so they shouldn't exist": see arguments for universal healthcare even if it means raising taxes on healthy people. The whole university functions better and achieves its mission better if there is more diversity and if students have more access to services they need. Lowering tuition would be a trade-off, not just trimming fat.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#27

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #12
Retric wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your pulling in ~10,000$ per person in tuition, and the average person takes 5 classes with a class size of 30 that's. 60,000$ per professor per year if they teach 4 classes, 75,000$ per professor if they teach 5 and 90k & 6 classes before expenses per class. So, the only way for that to work out is some other subsidies. However, lectures allow you to use TA's to more cheaply expand class sizes and might make it p…

But Brown's tuition for out of state students is just under $50,000 per year per student. Does that mean they could be paying those professors $300,000?

Brown is private, so there is no distinction for out of state students.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#28

Post by jackpeterfletch »

Retric wrote: post #9
bmcusick wrote: post #2

Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…

If your pulling in ~10,000$ per person in tuition, and the average person takes 5 classes with a class size of 30 that's. 60,000$ per professor per year if they teach 4 classes, 75,000$ per professor if they teach 5 and 90k & 6 classes before expenses per class. So, the only way for that to work out is some other subsidies. However, lectures allow you to use TA's to more cheaply expand class sizes and might make it p…

All professors take many more than 1 class?!

In the UK a professor might take 3-6 lectures and 1-3 classes a week, and they're often staffed by masters students.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#29

Post by finolex1 »

bmcusick wrote: post #2

Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…

Keep in mind that these are Ivy League universities hoping to attract the best students they can in order to boost their prestige.

If Princeton for instance decided to lower tuition fees by cutting down on 'luxuries' like smaller class sizes/ unrestricted enrollments in classes, then they'd lose out on the best students to Harvard or Yale.

So the only way to reduce tuition fees would be to do it across the board at once, but the richer universities have no incentive to do so because they can attract enough full-paying students and have a large enough endowment to pay for everyone else.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#30

Post by Retric »

jackpeterfletch wrote: post #28
Retric wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your pulling in ~10,000$ per person in tuition, and the average person takes 5 classes with a class size of 30 that's. 60,000$ per professor per year if they teach 4 classes, 75,000$ per professor if they teach 5 and 90k & 6 classes before expenses per class. So, the only way for that to work out is some other subsidies. However, lectures allow you to use TA's to more cheaply expand class sizes and might make it p…

All professors take many more than 1 class?! In the UK a professor might take 3-6 lectures and 1-3 classes a week, and they're often staffed by masters students.

Was editing 60k is teaching 4 classes with students paying 10k over 4 years. 90k for 6 classes but that's before expenses such as administration, the buildings etc.

It might be possible to nominally get that number but only if your hiding other costs.

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