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Ask HN: Why are we still using years of experience to measure work aptitude?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are we still using years of experience to measure work aptitude?

#21

Post by ToJans »

When you are learning something new, you will make mistakes. Some mistakes can be cheap, but others can be really expensive. If you do not know what I am talking about Google for "advanced beginner" and "Dreyfus curve of skill acquisition".

I get several job offers per year from my professional network, because I have been doing some things in the past where mistakes were bound to happen. Due to my expertise I am more likely to finish certain projects within time/budget/scope than others.

While it might be a long stretch, compare it to road cycling: who might have the best chances to finish a century (100 mile ride) within a reasonable time:

- someone who has read a lot about road cycling

- someone who has finished several centuries successfully

Practical knowledge tends to be way deeper than theoretical knowledge, and usually gives you the ability to judge whether the theory applies in a certain situation, or it does not.

You can not become a master chef by looking at TV shows, you need to walk the walk...

Re: Ask HN: Why are we still using years of experience to measure work aptitude?

#22

Post by chrisper »

hackits wrote: post #18
mdorazio wrote: post #10

You might be looking at this only from the perspective of a young person who wants to find a job. If you consider the perspective of an actual hiring manager, things start to make a lot more sense. Let's use a hypothetical example based on some plausible real-world stats... A hiring manager at a decently desirable company posts a job online. Within a week they are likely to get around 50 applicants, at which point th…

Also experience tell's you the person isn't going to do anything inappropriate in front of colleagues and do any sexual misconduct.

Is that why so many higher up people with many years experience get called out for sexual misconduct? I think your argument is not correct...

Re: Ask HN: Why are we still using years of experience to measure work aptitude?

#23

Post by gicadin »

mdorazio wrote: post #10

You might be looking at this only from the perspective of a young person who wants to find a job. If you consider the perspective of an actual hiring manager, things start to make a lot more sense. Let's use a hypothetical example based on some plausible real-world stats... A hiring manager at a decently desirable company posts a job online. Within a week they are likely to get around 50 applicants, at which point th…

Props for describing the problem as an optimization problem.

To add to that: Companies are not always looking to hire the best person for the job, but someone that can solve the problems they are facing. Since problems tend to repeat themselves, someone with experience has likely encountered and solved many of the problems they are hired to deal with.

This is not saying that having experience in a field means you will be able to solve a problem better than a inexperienced person, it just means they've likely encountered it before (or a variation) and managed to solve it. Business in general are risk averse, and therefore will opt for a guaranteed solution even if its not optimal.

Re: Ask HN: Why are we still using years of experience to measure work aptitude?

#24

Post by fulafel »

mdorazio wrote: post #10

You might be looking at this only from the perspective of a young person who wants to find a job. If you consider the perspective of an actual hiring manager, things start to make a lot more sense. Let's use a hypothetical example based on some plausible real-world stats... A hiring manager at a decently desirable company posts a job online. Within a week they are likely to get around 50 applicants, at which point th…

> But we need something that can be evaluated quickly, and experience is an easy proxy since it at least indicates that a person has been around a thing for a while and wasn't so bad at it that they got fired for incompetence.

This fits workplaces that make CRUD apps. But if you're ambitious you really don't want to filter out the un-cynical young people that might have lost patience with a poor employer in a short time. Even at the cost of having to skim through the text of 50 applications and picking out the interesting sounding ones.

Re: Ask HN: Why are we still using years of experience to measure work aptitude?

#25

Post by ramzyo »

I generally interpret “X years experience” as a rough indicator of what responsibilities are expected of a potential hire. If a role is looking for 2 years experience or less, I’d probably expect to be an individual contributor. Approx 5 years and level of responsibility grows, etc etc. This isn’t true of every role, and I agree with OP that taken alone years experience is an insufficient decision point for bringing on a candidate (IMO no single axis is a sufficient decision point for a yes, but some single axes are decision points for a no, like inappropriate behavior during an interview). However, as a heuristic for both a hiring team to optimize the greatest number of qualified candidates applying and for qualified candidates deciding whether they want to apply, it’s a useful indicator.

Re: Ask HN: Why are we still using years of experience to measure work aptitude?

#26

Post by jaequery »

no matter how talented you may be, you still have to learn to walk before you can run.

depends on the job but it should be obvious that an inexperienced developer can slow a project down if the skill levels are too great between a team of programmers as they will have a hard time communicating certain things. there will be many hours a day spent explaining little things that they usually fail to see. this might be fine for big companies but a real handicap for new budding startups.

programming is not just math and logic, its also about seeing and properly identifying the situations, to know what type of tools to use, which 3rd party libraries are needed, and knowing when to take shortcuts and not to, which are all difficult choices if you dont have any real world experience.

but on the contrary, i have also worked with some college grads or even high school dropouts that seem to have as much experience as some seniors. and these are the hidden gems most companies wish to find during hiring process.

its a difficult nut to crack when you are reviewing a hundred or so applicants and it comes down to seeing who they are on paper. which means most of the focus is seeing who have the most accolades, ahievements, github stars, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why are we still using years of experience to measure work aptitude?

#29

Post by bradknowles »

mdorazio wrote: post #10

You might be looking at this only from the perspective of a young person who wants to find a job. If you consider the perspective of an actual hiring manager, things start to make a lot more sense. Let's use a hypothetical example based on some plausible real-world stats... A hiring manager at a decently desirable company posts a job online. Within a week they are likely to get around 50 applicants, at which point th…

With respect, I’ve got nearly 30 years of experience in the field, and I have the same questions —- why do people equate years of experience with competence?

I’ve met so many people who are incompetent and yet have many years of experience, and I’ve met a number of people who are very competent but do not actually have that many years of experience.

Re: Ask HN: Why are we still using years of experience to measure work aptitude?

#30

Post by adamredwoods »

When building a team, you need more than just technical aptitude, therefore years of experience can also help judge:

- how well someone can get along with the group

- how well someone knows the industry and relationships they've built within it

- how well make decisions that are not specifically programming-based that may need a business perspective as well

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