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Remarks on the Decline of American Empire

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Re: Remarks on the Decline of American Empire

#61

Post by rgbrenner »

ramzyo wrote: post #58
rgbrenner wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He made it to the front page because people here read it, thought it was interesting, and gave it a point. The fact it's on the front page means nothing more than that. Any reputation youre attaching to it doesn't exist.

Hmm, I see your point. So you don't think that reputability of the source plays into what makes it to the front page? Generally, and purely anecdotally, I find HN content to be both interesting and either a) from a reputable source, generally for opinion pieces such as this or b) supported by facts, with sources, or with broadly-accepted knowledge held by the audience (such as with technical posts). Either a) or b),…

People are free to take whatever criteria they want into their upvote. Certainly all of that plays into the decisions individual voters make when they upvote a post, but it's not required.

There's no authority granted by being on the front page. You should feel free to question any ideas presented, no matter who they are from (including from people with actual authority... since even smart people are still just people).

Re: Remarks on the Decline of American Empire

#62

Post by bmm6o »

jancsika wrote: post #39
bmm6o wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only was the disaster entirely predictable, they themselves predicted it. For Gulf War I, Cheney (then Secretary of Defense) explained why they left Saddam in power - that removing him would create a power vacuum and a civil war leading to regional instability. Gulf War II - with Cheney as VP - has exactly this outcome, leading us to dump blood and money (ours and others) in the desert sands.

So who was the mastermind? Wolfowitz?

I don't even know all of the players, and don't claim to know their motivations. I will say that you don't need a mastermind or a conspiracy if your incentives are shared or aligned. Some may have done it for money, some for power, some to prop up W's popularity in order to pass a domestic agenda.

Re: Remarks on the Decline of American Empire

#63

Post by ramzyo »

rgbrenner wrote: post #61
ramzyo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I see your point. So you don't think that reputability of the source plays into what makes it to the front page? Generally, and purely anecdotally, I find HN content to be both interesting and either a) from a reputable source, generally for opinion pieces such as this or b) supported by facts, with sources, or with broadly-accepted knowledge held by the audience (such as with technical posts). Either a) or b),…

People are free to take whatever criteria they want into their upvote. Certainly all of that plays into the decisions individual voters make when they upvote a post, but it's not required. There's no authority granted by being on the front page. You should feel free to question any ideas presented, no matter who they are from (including from people with actual authority... since even smart people are still just peopl…

Thanks for providing your thoughts on this, much appreciated!

Re: Remarks on the Decline of American Empire

#64

Post by timthelion »

bluetomcat wrote: post #60
timthelion wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the disillusionment in the Czech Republic not only the fault of the Americans, but also the fault of the former communists, who remained in power for the most part. During the privatization process the countries assets were sold to the corrupt ex-communists and westerners for pennies on the dollar. There is as much evil and profiteering from within as there is evil from outside. Which NGOs are you…

I will outline the Bulgarian perspective of events. By the mid 1980s, "perestroychiks" in the Bulgarian communist party had prevailed over the old generation of die-hard communists. Despite officially calling themselves "communists", these people were avid pro-westerners and believers in market economy. One such key figure in Bulgaria was Andrey Lukanov, a minister of foreign trade during that time. When the Berlin w…

Do you think that the America for Bulgaria Foundation's promotion of gay rights is somehow harming your economy?

"The privatisation therefore was more of an emergent act of saving the failed state enterprises. They were sold for pennies because they couldn't export their production and the domestic market was dire." I do not know the situation in Bulgaria, but in the Czech Republic, the enterprises which were bought by the elites and foreign interests were not failing, and several ex-communists have become USD billionaires by having "purchased" them.

Re: Remarks on the Decline of American Empire

#65

Post by bluetomcat »

timthelion wrote: post #64
bluetomcat wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will outline the Bulgarian perspective of events. By the mid 1980s, "perestroychiks" in the Bulgarian communist party had prevailed over the old generation of die-hard communists. Despite officially calling themselves "communists", these people were avid pro-westerners and believers in market economy. One such key figure in Bulgaria was Andrey Lukanov, a minister of foreign trade during that time. When the Berlin w…

Do you think that the America for Bulgaria Foundation's promotion of gay rights is somehow harming your economy? "The privatisation therefore was more of an emergent act of saving the failed state enterprises. They were sold for pennies because they couldn't export their production and the domestic market was dire." I do not know the situation in Bulgaria, but in the Czech Republic, the enterprises which were bought…

Few of the privatised enterprises in Bulgaria actually remained profitable, but their new owners (ex-communists and foreigners with questionable reputation) benefited greatly mostly from inheriting their assets like buildings and production lines, which were quickly disassembled and sold for hefty sums. Those money were then spent on luxury cars and political bribery, not reinvested in any way.

Re: Remarks on the Decline of American Empire

#66

Post by jancsika »

bmm6o wrote: post #62
jancsika wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So who was the mastermind? Wolfowitz?

I don't even know all of the players, and don't claim to know their motivations. I will say that you don't need a mastermind or a conspiracy if your incentives are shared or aligned. Some may have done it for money, some for power, some to prop up W's popularity in order to pass a domestic agenda.

> I don't even know all of the players, and don't claim to know their motivations.

I'm asking for a response from someone who knows the players and can give convincing evidence for their motivations.

I mention Wolfowitz because as I remember it he was one of the chief writers of the PNAC policy pieces[1] that were urging for a ground war in Iraq during Clinton's second term.

I'd be interested in reading more from an expert on the chief movers and shakers in buildup to the Iraq War, especially since almost all of those neo-cons involved have done a lot to distance themselves from it over the last decade.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_C...

Re: Remarks on the Decline of American Empire

#67

Post by fooblitzky »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #6

The decline is overstated. International goodwill was at a very high point with Obama's election (Nobel, anyone). There's still nobody that can compete on the US's scale. There's a reason Macron wants to empower and streamline the EU (besides his power fantasies). Russia is a stagnant and isolated state, China has major ongoing issues with poverty and environmental degradation. China can't wage a war with the US outs…

At it's greatest extent, but also declining in economical production for many years and so heavily in debt that servicing interest required nearly half of the government expenditure. Then WWII ended the British empire, despite victory, and a massive part of that was the financial debt owed the USA.

Re: Remarks on the Decline of American Empire

#68

Post by tabtab »

I suspect that the Chinese govt's censorship desires will drag it down in terms of being a tax on productivity. To expand more, Chinese companies will have to interact more with the rest of the world, and this will create further censorship and monitoring pressure on the govt.

Re: Remarks on the Decline of American Empire

#69

Post by nikdaheratik »

Alot of the same arguments I heard from old people 20 years ago. I agree with the foreign policy critques, especially regarding the middle east, but we had similar issues with Vietnam 50 years ago and even larger ones with the Civil War and still bounced back.

China has alot going for it economically, and that's a good thing overall, but it has its own issues to reckon with. Also, it's actually harder for its neighbors to deal with China, and vice versa, because of distance and shared borders. The U.S. may come across as a noisy policeman at times, but that's less of a worry that a pushy neighbor that keeps trying to move the fence line.

Re: Remarks on the Decline of American Empire

#70

Post by nikdaheratik »

cucuuc wrote: post #51
jonathanehrlich wrote: post #50

Fyi - RT is paid for by the Russian Government.

What’s you’re point? Do you point out that the BBC is owned/paid by the British government when someone posts BBC? (or NPR for that matter)

I guess that depends on how much you trust a government news source when that government is headed by a guy that murders journalists that disagree with him.
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