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Brutal life working in Amazon warehouse

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Re: Brutal life working in Amazon warehouse

#121

Post by zemo »

token_throwaway wrote: post #118
zemo wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is extremely harsh. But life is harsh. Oh please. We don't live in the forest, we don't scrape the dirt for nuts and berries, we live in modern industrialized societies with extreme concentrations of wealth. Life is not innately harsh due to uncontrollable circumstance; modern life is harsh because of the greed of corporations like Amazon and the indifference of comments like yours. In a modern industrialized so…

Please, find an example of a better system in a stronger economy.

why? You're not going to be convinced no matter what I say, because the challenged as posed is a pure trick. Both "better system" and "strong economy" are multivariant. So long as I say "in [place] that has laws mandating [some labor condition], they have [some value higher] in [some dimension]", and you will say "but in [some other dimension] they are [worse]". No matter what case is presented, you will refute it by any means that suit your argument to keep your own already-held conclusion that the profits of the few justify the subjugation of the many. So I could click around to various labor laws and economics statistics and say things like "Denmark's Working Environment Act dictates a standard work week of 37 hours and more than 48 hours a week and they have a higher GDP per capita and their national debt is 39% of GDP compared to the uk's 89% of gdp and they report higher levels of happiness" and you might say something like "yes but their taxes are higher and their life expectancy is shorter and also open-faced sandwiches are bad". There's no one metric to define "better system" or "stronger economy", so the challenge as posed has no merit. So long as you are looking to justify the stance you already have to yourself, you will.

Really, I cannot convince you of this point based on evidence alone. I can only tell you this: I am literally disgusted by your stance and I would never want to work with you or for you, and I think that society as a whole will start to see the software industry as a force of evil, moreso and moreso with each passing day, so long as your stance is the norm.

Re: Brutal life working in Amazon warehouse

#122

Post by stevenj »

stevenwoo wrote: post #39
stevenj wrote: post #30

As a customer, Amazon is wonderful. But it needs to treat its employees better. Fix this, Jeff.

Isn't the only way to attempt to fix this as a customer is to not be a customer? As a shareholder one could try to change things in other ways.

I don't see how me simply stopping being a customer in itself would help them treat their employees better.

They wouldn't know why I stopped being a customer, unless I tell them.

Perhaps a better course of action would be to write a letter directly to Jeff.

Re: Brutal life working in Amazon warehouse

#123

Post by vorpalhex »

colechristensen wrote: post #92
vorpalhex wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we go back to the days of mandated government work programs? What is your actual recommendation here? At some point we have to accept that people should be able to make free choices, and will typically make sub-optimal choices. We can increase the burden on employers but then that means less overall jobs - which then leads to that starvation outcome you mention.

My only recommendation is to not base your moral code on market forces. Not everything the market allows is good. And maybe think a little about the people involved in the products you consume.

So we should stop shopping at Amazon so their workforce is laid off?

Or we should force Amazon to raise their prices which affects low income consumers the most?

Re: Brutal life working in Amazon warehouse

#124

Post by krapp »

fpisfun wrote: post #49

When an Amazon warehouse opened in my area relatively recently it seemed that many people were scrambling like crazy to try to get a job there. These seemed to be people who are poorly educated and low skilled but clearly the Amazon job represented a step up for them. I'm not saying that there aren't issues but clearly working for Amazon is still a better alternative than their other options. I personally know of som…

You'd be surprised, though.

I work at an Amazon fulfillment center near Austin and I wouldn't say that the people working there seem poorly educated or skilled, at least not less so than average. They're mostly working at Amazon for the benefits and possibility of extra cash during peak. Also bear in mind that, because of what Amazon pays at the bottom tiers, many of these people also have a second job as well, so it's not necessarily the case that this is the only job they could have. There are just too many people working in these jobs for that to be the case.

Re: Brutal life working in Amazon warehouse

#125

Post by krapp »

colechristensen wrote: post #78
CamelCaseName wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government were to offer PTO for employees below a certain income threshold to learn new work-related skills, would that help lift people out of these situations? Or would such a system be 1. too invasive and 2. abused, either by companies or the employees.

That's a weird way to do it, and would tend to subsidize employers for questionable benefits. Tax incentives for employer tuition reimbursement makes more sense. Instead there should be programs to pay people minimum wage + tuition to attend community college for in-demand-career related degrees.

>Instead there should be programs to pay people minimum wage + tuition to attend community college for in-demand-career related degrees.

Amazon has a program like that. Unfortunately, it's only for AAS, and they only pay partial tuition.

What Amazon doesn't seem to have is a program to help people grow within Amazon, beyond FC work. There are tons of in-house resources, video tutorials, etc for training that employees simply can never access because they don't have the time.

Re: Brutal life working in Amazon warehouse

#127

Post by nemo3141 »

I recently started working as a associate full-time at a large warehouse in US. I have a college degree and have worked as a junior Front End Developer in the past but my work permit expires next year so I stopped looking for a "real" job. I can answer any questions you guys might have as I don't thing there are any warehouse associates to answer directly in this thread.

Re: Brutal life working in Amazon warehouse

#128

Post by krapp »

nemo3141 wrote: post #127

I recently started working as a associate full-time at a large warehouse in US. I have a college degree and have worked as a junior Front End Developer in the past but my work permit expires next year so I stopped looking for a "real" job. I can answer any questions you guys might have as I don't thing there are any warehouse associates to answer directly in this thread.

I don't have any questions, because I'm in more or less the same situation - working at an Amazon FC to pay off my programming degree because it's more stable than trying to get a job in tech right now.

But... don't look too closely at the internal tools like the stow app or bintools. You'll weep.

Re: Brutal life working in Amazon warehouse

#129

Post by nemo3141 »

krapp wrote: post #128
nemo3141 wrote: post #127

I recently started working as a associate full-time at a large warehouse in US. I have a college degree and have worked as a junior Front End Developer in the past but my work permit expires next year so I stopped looking for a "real" job. I can answer any questions you guys might have as I don't thing there are any warehouse associates to answer directly in this thread.

I don't have any questions, because I'm in more or less the same situation - working at an Amazon FC to pay off my programming degree because it's more stable than trying to get a job in tech right now. But... don't look too closely at the internal tools like the stow app or bintools. You'll weep.

I don't know what those are. I have been working as a packer mostly and our place has a minimum of 200 items per hour.

Re: Brutal life working in Amazon warehouse

#130

Post by JBlue42 »

noam87 wrote: post #103
pkaler wrote: post #80

Brutal? Sounds like a regular blue collar job. I worked as a sparkwatch at a plywood plant in high school. Basically, a welder’s assistant. This is what regular blue collar jobs look like. You work 12 hour shifts. The machinery is hot. There is constant dust in the air. You are on your feet the entire time. It’s 30ºC in the summer. It’s -20ºC in the winter. People in Sillicon Valley and especially the press are just…

> Brutal? Sounds like a regular blue collar job. Which is to say: brutality is regular. While of course the current move towards exposing harassment in the office is important, I don't hear much recognition that the people getting the most benefit are those whose prospects are already cushy to begin with... how much of this is actually "tricking down" to people working in often dehumanizing conditions? I worked minim…

Things like this are why I love seeing articles / comments on HN telling kids not to go to college, to do trades, etc. Or when you overhear someone at a dinner party saying how they wish they could quit they're good-paying desk job to go work i a restaurant kitchen full-time. The grass looks greener but it's certainly not easier and your body can take a beating.
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