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A basic income could boost the US economy by $2.5 trillion

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Re: A basic income could boost the US economy by $2.5 trillion

#21

Post by garmaine »

sergiosgc wrote: post #12
AznHisoka wrote: post #2

" enacting a UBI and paying for it by increasing the federal debt would grow the economy (and increase GDP)" Printing trillions and trillions of dollars of money would increase the debt and increase GDP. Let's do that too!

We're already doing that[1]. It's just that Quantitative Easing is being injected in the economy via banks. [1] I'm actually European, but the ECB and the Federal Reserve are behaving in similar fashion, in this case.

Not on that scale. QE is more than an order of magnitude smaller, and already that is at the limit of what economists feel “safe” doing.

Re: A basic income could boost the US economy by $2.5 trillion

#22

Post by nickthemagicman »

kazinator wrote: post #14
rbanffy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you increase taxation at the top ranges (and close loopholes the very rich and their corporate personas use to evade taxes and so on) you'll end up just injecting those trillions back into the economy. If you use that to replace means-tested aid, you get rid of the management overhead. And, maybe, if the US cuts costs for the military, making them build roads and schools instead of bombing them, you'll realize you…

> you'll end up just injecting those trillions back into the economy. Right; that is, whichever economy those rich folks choose to call home. :)

There's been studies that found the rich don't leave a place due to taxes.

I.E. California has one of the biggest economies in the world...

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2011/02/documents/...

Re: A basic income could boost the US economy by $2.5 trillion

#23

Post by genzoman »

abfan1127 wrote: post #11
bluetwo wrote: post #3

The only place I can think of that has done something similar is the oil and land rights of the native people of Alaska, who get checks somewhere in that range. How has this turned out for them?

the difference is the Alaska pulled natural resources out of the ground. Basic Income is just wealth transfer.

Hipster way to say "stealing" ;)

Re: A basic income could boost the US economy by $2.5 trillion

#24

Post by jrs95 »

jessriedel wrote: post #17
rbanffy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you increase taxation at the top ranges (and close loopholes the very rich and their corporate personas use to evade taxes and so on) you'll end up just injecting those trillions back into the economy. If you use that to replace means-tested aid, you get rid of the management overhead. And, maybe, if the US cuts costs for the military, making them build roads and schools instead of bombing them, you'll realize you…

The entire US military budget is only $0.6T, or $4.8T over the relevant 8 years.

It had already been cut via sequestration under Obama (although ironically the Republicans were more to blame for this in my opinion). Couldn't cut much more than that without doing something to improve efficiency. Looks like that isn't going to last under the current administration though, I would be surprised if we end up with a much larger military budget.

Re: A basic income could boost the US economy by $2.5 trillion

#25

Post by pqh »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #20

It's more than the expense of paying the money and whether people will continue to work. What needs to also be closely studied is: - Effect on crime - Effect on drug addiction - Effect on family outcomes - Effect on education opportunities I'd gladly pay more taxes if I could draw a direct link between UBI and a safer, happier society.

I'd also be interested in effect on resource consumption.

GDP isn't everything. I can't say it better than Kennedy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77IdKFqXbUY

Re: A basic income could boost the US economy by $2.5 trillion

#26

Post by mattmanser »

craftyguy wrote: post #4

At a cost of $24 trillion? Ha! 250m[1] * $1000 * 8 * 12 = $24,000,000,000,000 1. http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/99-total-populat...

If everyone's being paid $1000 per month more, you'd expect all jobs to pay less, and the profits from companies used to pay for it.

Re: A basic income could boost the US economy by $2.5 trillion

#27

Post by defertoreptar »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #20

It's more than the expense of paying the money and whether people will continue to work. What needs to also be closely studied is: - Effect on crime - Effect on drug addiction - Effect on family outcomes - Effect on education opportunities I'd gladly pay more taxes if I could draw a direct link between UBI and a safer, happier society.

Don't forget economic productivity.

Re: A basic income could boost the US economy by $2.5 trillion

#29

Post by Turing_Machine »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #22
kazinator wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you'll end up just injecting those trillions back into the economy. Right; that is, whichever economy those rich folks choose to call home. :)

There's been studies that found the rich don't leave a place due to taxes. I.E. California has one of the biggest economies in the world... http://minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2011/02/documents/...

State and local taxes won't be deductible from federal taxes under the new Trump tax plan.

The story is going to be rather different in that situation, I would bet.

Re: A basic income could boost the US economy by $2.5 trillion

#30

Post by MereInterest »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #20

It's more than the expense of paying the money and whether people will continue to work. What needs to also be closely studied is: - Effect on crime - Effect on drug addiction - Effect on family outcomes - Effect on education opportunities I'd gladly pay more taxes if I could draw a direct link between UBI and a safer, happier society.

There was an experiment in Canada in the 70s, Mincome. It went really well, from everything I can find about it, with increased school attendance and decreased hospital visits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome

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