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Bitcoin Approaches $10,000 a piece

bbc.co.uk

51–60 of 77 posts

Re: Bitcoin Approaches $10,000 a piece

#51
Bitcoin mania appears to be well underway.

Yes, bitcoin has uses. (Including some cool, elegant and potentially very significant ones.) But despite the troubled state of the world, it does not appear to me that anything has happened that would justify the current ongoing explosion in price.

For an example of a mania in action, take a look at the price spike in tulip bulbs in the early 1800s: http://www.thebubblebubble.com/tulip-mania/

Re: Bitcoin Approaches $10,000 a piece

#52
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. USD is backed up by a State entity; bitcoin doesn't need one. An alternative USD needs an alternative guarantee of its value, an alternative bitcoin is as safe as the original one.

Not quite, since the "backing" of Bitcoin is in it's proof of work, an alternate won't have as much hashpower backing the work, so it won't have as much guarantee.

Good point. I guess that the major bitcoin miners could already derail any emerging competitors with a few intermittent 50% attacks.

Re: Bitcoin Approaches $10,000 a piece

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to repeat myself here, but please bear with me if you haven't heard this argument before. I respectfully disagree with the idea that Bitcoin's killer-app is to be used as a currency for transactional purposes. I can't really think of many reasons why you would use crypto to pay for a coffee or a sandwich if you live in the West (or frankly, even most developing nations). On the other hand, I can definitely…

You forgot the use case where you're a drug dealer or other shady character and would like a means of transferring money internationally without relying on a regulated payment system. This group was responsible for the most payment-related bitcoin transfers a couple of years ago, at least until that exchange site was shut down. Also, ransomware.

I'm so tired of seeing this trucked out as a response anytime someone talks about how bitcoin is used.

Cash is used for some pretty shitty stuff too, so are credit cards, and checks, and just about every other form of payment.

And funnily enough, Bitcoin is about the dumbest thing to use for illicit things, as it's so easily trackable and records of the money's movement is forever carved into the blockchain (so even if it takes someone 10 years to track the money, or even realize it needs to be tracked, it's still going to be there).

But what about the valid and legal use cases of:

1. paying for goods and services without having to give the company i'm paying access to my account information in a way that they can charge more whenever they want, or lose my information and put my financials at risk

2. Receiving payment for goods and services in a form of money that you don't need to worry about "chargebacks", "reversals", or any kind of way of taking money back after it's been sent

Combine both of those things, and I could see a very real reduction in costs of doing business in just about every area.

Re: Bitcoin Approaches $10,000 a piece

#54
post #7

Nobody actually uses bitcoin for payment. There is more or less the same places where to spend it as there was 4, 5 years ago. And they all have about the same traffic, which is nearly zero. Most people only use it for speculation. This can't end well.

I'm going to repeat myself here, but please bear with me if you haven't heard this argument before. I respectfully disagree with the idea that Bitcoin's killer-app is to be used as a currency for transactional purposes. I can't really think of many reasons why you would use crypto to pay for a coffee or a sandwich if you live in the West (or frankly, even most developing nations). On the other hand, I can definitely…

All of your proposed use cases depend on the authorities approving your actions. Governments can and will at some point request standard AML procedures when you are depositing large sums of crypto currency into an exchange. If a state decides to introduce capital controls it would also be pretty easy to shutdown access to such an exchange. You can be forced to hand over your private keys or your public addresses could be simply black listed, making them unusable. I would think of bitcoin more like an insurance (like gold) which you need to buy in calm times. Once shit hits the fan it's most likely too late to buy or send bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin Approaches $10,000 a piece

#55
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite, since the "backing" of Bitcoin is in it's proof of work, an alternate won't have as much hashpower backing the work, so it won't have as much guarantee.

Good point. I guess that the major bitcoin miners could already derail any emerging competitors with a few intermittent 50% attacks.

Every now and then I like to look at the chart at [0] to show just how important this is.

The most prominent "fork" of bitcoin (bitcoin cash) is still only about 45 days away from having their entire history since the fork rewritten using just 25% of the available hashpower.

In a little over a month, they could re-mine every single block since the fork changing which transactions are included. And that's the most popular fork, rewriting the entire chain since the fork. If you want to rewrite just the last 50 or so blocks? You'd need something like a few days and a few percent of the overall hash power to do it.

Are you in possession of like 1% of hashpower? Then it's more than possible for you to send something like 100 BCH to an exchange, wait for the 10 confirmations, then go to work rewriting the chain from that point to "current" without your transaction.

[0] https://fork.lol/security/fork

Re: Bitcoin Approaches $10,000 a piece

#56
post #7

Nobody actually uses bitcoin for payment. There is more or less the same places where to spend it as there was 4, 5 years ago. And they all have about the same traffic, which is nearly zero. Most people only use it for speculation. This can't end well.

I'm going to repeat myself here, but please bear with me if you haven't heard this argument before. I respectfully disagree with the idea that Bitcoin's killer-app is to be used as a currency for transactional purposes. I can't really think of many reasons why you would use crypto to pay for a coffee or a sandwich if you live in the West (or frankly, even most developing nations). On the other hand, I can definitely…

I am sceptical that Bitcoin would be able to hold its value in the absence of state support. If major world governments decided to ban Bitcoin exchanges, then how useful is your "censorship resistant wealth"? People accept its value at the moment because they know they can turn it back into more widely accepted currency if and when they need to. But if that becomes substantially more difficult, I think a lot of people would prefer something more liquid.

Re: Bitcoin Approaches $10,000 a piece

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. Bitcoin has a fixed supply of 21M bitcoins that will ever exist. I could also create software alternatives of Facebook & Wikipedia, but they would have no value. Network effects are what matter.

21M with fractions down to 0.00000000001, so while it's fixed it's also fractionable to a very small number.

I'm not sure if this is the point you were making, but divisibility doesn't make something less scarce, any more than being able to cut a gold brick into nuggets means gold isn't scarce. A single Bitcoin remains exactly as scarce regardless of how it is divided.

Re: Bitcoin Approaches $10,000 a piece

#58
post #2

As the older generation doesn't get why you would buy a bitcoin and where you would keep it, the newer generation doesn't get why you would buy a shiny piece of metal as in gold bullion and where you would safely keep it. Bitcoin market is still minuscule comparative to gold, and while most will point out that it doesn't work amazing as a currency, if it gets to like 50% of the current gold market, it is going to be…

The younger generation probably gets it, but it doesn't sound as attractive as 1000% return of investment within a relatively short period that a lot of people who own bitcoin (and thus depend on new people buying it) are trying to promote.

Re: Bitcoin Approaches $10,000 a piece

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to repeat myself here, but please bear with me if you haven't heard this argument before. I respectfully disagree with the idea that Bitcoin's killer-app is to be used as a currency for transactional purposes. I can't really think of many reasons why you would use crypto to pay for a coffee or a sandwich if you live in the West (or frankly, even most developing nations). On the other hand, I can definitely…

> I can't really think of many reasons why you would use crypto to pay for a coffee or a sandwich if you live in the West I can think of one: if you get paid in Bitcoin, having to buy some GBPs just so you can buy a coffee or a sandwich is a hassle.

But getting paid in Bitcoin is already a way bigger hassle than getting paid in GBP in the first place.

Re: Bitcoin Approaches $10,000 a piece

#60
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to repeat myself here, but please bear with me if you haven't heard this argument before. I respectfully disagree with the idea that Bitcoin's killer-app is to be used as a currency for transactional purposes. I can't really think of many reasons why you would use crypto to pay for a coffee or a sandwich if you live in the West (or frankly, even most developing nations). On the other hand, I can definitely…

All of your proposed use cases depend on the authorities approving your actions. Governments can and will at some point request standard AML procedures when you are depositing large sums of crypto currency into an exchange. If a state decides to introduce capital controls it would also be pretty easy to shutdown access to such an exchange. You can be forced to hand over your private keys or your public addresses coul…

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