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Vitalik Unveils Ethereum 2.0 Roadmap

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Re: Vitalik Unveils Ethereum 2.0 Roadmap

#21

Post by whiskers08xmt »

DalasNoin wrote: post #18
nope96 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the 60 early contributors now get 12.5% of all network fees, forever? (if they "stake")?

I assume they sold some of it by now. But I see your point, does pos make the rich richer? Rich people can stake almost all their ether. since you can't move your ether for a long period of time after you stake it, staking is impractical for many. The first version of Casper will also include a minimum of ether to stake, though there are pools and they want too lower it over time.

Capital begets capital. The choice of consensus algorithm doesn't matter, as long as the system follows some kind of capitalistic economic model.

Re: Vitalik Unveils Ethereum 2.0 Roadmap

#22

Post by nope96 »

crypt1d wrote: post #17
celticninja wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In cryptocurrencies this coin was essentially a pre-mine which is done specifically to enrich the creators without any expense to themselves. Say what you want about bitcoin, but Satoshi Nakamoto earned his coins fairly (even though he may never access them) and created a fair and level playing field for everyone who started mining alongside him. Further the vague wording about the supply size means it is unlikely th…

huh? btc was premined by Satoshi and early contributors too. while nobody can confirm which of the early wallets are his, the value of the premined btc coins is likely higher than the Ethereum premine. this is the nature of all the PoW coins. The early contributors take the most risk and the most reward (if the coin succeeds).

> btc was premined by Satoshi

No, Satoshi did not "premine" bitcoin. Premine means on day zero you have created currency for yourself already. The only block we know Satoshi did mine cannot be spent. There is also zero evidence that Satoshi mined additional blocks once the network got up and running. (It took days for the second block to be found.)

Re: Vitalik Unveils Ethereum 2.0 Roadmap

#23

Post by albertgoeswoof »

nope96 wrote: post #16
marcell wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who were these early contributors, how much did each get, and why do they get to have 12.5% of the entire economy on day 1? Why does Larry Page or Google Engineer #1 own billions of dollars of Google stock? Because he was there on day 1 and you weren't :)

I know the US Government oversaw the Google IPO and the stocks weren't printed out of thin air. In the Ether ICO, a big whale friend of Vitalik could have sent his Bitcoin in during the ICO sale, got Ether for it, then Vitalik sent him his Bitcoin back. Poof, Ether printed out of thin air - there is no way to prove this did not happen. That is the problem with these ICOs vs. using Proof of Work to fairly distribute t…

But couldn't exactly that have happened during Google's seed rounds? And even the Google IPO? There's no way to prove that didn't happen either?

Re: Vitalik Unveils Ethereum 2.0 Roadmap

#24

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

nope96 wrote: post #16
marcell wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who were these early contributors, how much did each get, and why do they get to have 12.5% of the entire economy on day 1? Why does Larry Page or Google Engineer #1 own billions of dollars of Google stock? Because he was there on day 1 and you weren't :)

I know the US Government oversaw the Google IPO and the stocks weren't printed out of thin air. In the Ether ICO, a big whale friend of Vitalik could have sent his Bitcoin in during the ICO sale, got Ether for it, then Vitalik sent him his Bitcoin back. Poof, Ether printed out of thin air - there is no way to prove this did not happen. That is the problem with these ICOs vs. using Proof of Work to fairly distribute t…

Ethereum itself is not an ICO. ICO is something other projects can do on Ethereum (or on other platforms). There is actually some big differences and the rules are different. Bottomline: you are free to create your own cryptocurrency and pre-mine any large amount of it to yourself. Good luck making such a good one that other people will consider worth using and buying it, knowing about your premine. (And I even hope you succeed, because it will mean that you have created tremendous value for the world. But the chances are you won't.)

Re: Vitalik Unveils Ethereum 2.0 Roadmap

#25

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

celticninja wrote: post #12
nope96 wrote: post #5

Any time I read about Ether I think about this - "12 Million ETH were created to the development fund, most of it going to early contributors and developers..." At today's rate that's $5,860,200,000 USD. Who were these early contributors, how much did each get, and why do they get to have 12.5% of the entire economy on day 1? How is that a fair currency? I've read there were only 60 some "early contributors". Where's…

In cryptocurrencies this coin was essentially a pre-mine which is done specifically to enrich the creators without any expense to themselves. Say what you want about bitcoin, but Satoshi Nakamoto earned his coins fairly (even though he may never access them) and created a fair and level playing field for everyone who started mining alongside him. Further the vague wording about the supply size means it is unlikely th…

"Without any expense"? What do you call the technical expertise and man-years of work put into the network?

Re: Vitalik Unveils Ethereum 2.0 Roadmap

#26

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

nope96 wrote: post #22
crypt1d wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

huh? btc was premined by Satoshi and early contributors too. while nobody can confirm which of the early wallets are his, the value of the premined btc coins is likely higher than the Ethereum premine. this is the nature of all the PoW coins. The early contributors take the most risk and the most reward (if the coin succeeds).

> btc was premined by Satoshi No, Satoshi did not "premine" bitcoin. Premine means on day zero you have created currency for yourself already. The only block we know Satoshi did mine cannot be spent. There is also zero evidence that Satoshi mined additional blocks once the network got up and running. (It took days for the second block to be found.)

Since no one can actually prove (or, rather, no one has been able to do that yet) who Satoshi is, your statement of whether there is evidence of him (her?them?) mining or not mining in the beginning is rather baseless.

Re: Vitalik Unveils Ethereum 2.0 Roadmap

#27

Post by Nokinside »

Protocols like IPFS, BitTorrent produce tangible value for the users. In all fairness it would be nice to see them getting at least something in order of $10 million for their nice effort.

These new ICO's are manufactured to give the company that develops them hundreds of millions or even speculative billions in paper.

How long until people realize again that these products have near-zero marginal cost?

Artificial scarcity can be circumvented by just copying Ethereum and creating cheaper alternative.

Re: Vitalik Unveils Ethereum 2.0 Roadmap

#28

Post by FreeRadical »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #24
nope96 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the US Government oversaw the Google IPO and the stocks weren't printed out of thin air. In the Ether ICO, a big whale friend of Vitalik could have sent his Bitcoin in during the ICO sale, got Ether for it, then Vitalik sent him his Bitcoin back. Poof, Ether printed out of thin air - there is no way to prove this did not happen. That is the problem with these ICOs vs. using Proof of Work to fairly distribute t…

Ethereum itself is not an ICO. ICO is something other projects can do on Ethereum (or on other platforms). There is actually some big differences and the rules are different. Bottomline: you are free to create your own cryptocurrency and pre-mine any large amount of it to yourself. Good luck making such a good one that other people will consider worth using and buying it, knowing about your premine. (And I even hope…

Ethereum had an ICO

https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/07/22/launching-the-ether-sal...

Re: Vitalik Unveils Ethereum 2.0 Roadmap

#29

Post by stupidcar »

It strikes me as an (non-invested) outsider that Ethereum seems to benefit from having a figure like Vitalik who can act as a Torvalds-esque figurehead, setting the project's technical direction. And that, in contrast, the non-participation of Satoshi Nakamoto has left a power vacuum at the heart of Bitcoin, which results in the kind of bloody and attritional battles required to move it forward. Because everybody and nobody can claim to be the heir to Nakamoto's technical vision.

Clearly Ethereum has had more than its share of problems, but as things stand, I feel it has a greater chance of becoming a truly disruptive technology than Bitcoin, which seems to have become stuck in a technical quagmire.

Re: Vitalik Unveils Ethereum 2.0 Roadmap

#30

Post by once_inc »

lnsp wrote: post #13
nope96 wrote: post #5

Any time I read about Ether I think about this - "12 Million ETH were created to the development fund, most of it going to early contributors and developers..." At today's rate that's $5,860,200,000 USD. Who were these early contributors, how much did each get, and why do they get to have 12.5% of the entire economy on day 1? How is that a fair currency? I've read there were only 60 some "early contributors". Where's…

Because Ether is actually usable (even without smart contracts) as a form of money since the transaction fees are really low compared to Bitcoin. When you pay somebody using Bitcoin, you currently pay $5 to $8 as transaction fee and it needs about 1 1/2 hours for the money to arrive. When you use Ether, you only pay $0.25 (or even lower) as a fee and the system needs less than 20 seconds to confirm your transaction.…

bitcoin's mempool is being cleared off 5-10 and even some 0-5 sat/byte transactions. If you set a correct fee, you can have $0.5 transactions that confirm within 10min.
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