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Bitcoin World’s 30th Largest Currency, Market Cap Closes on Mastercard

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11–20 of 61 posts

Re: Bitcoin World’s 30th Largest Currency, Market Cap Closes on Mastercard

#11
post #5

The price of bitcoin is totally fraudulent, driven by a couple of exchanges literally printing money, and gullible people doing arbitrage and exchanging bitcoin for tether.

The current price increase was driven almost entirely by a major US-based exchange which doesn't accept tether and has fairly substantial volume. Somehow this doesn't falsify the idea that the price is driven by tether-printing because it seems there's no possible turn of events that can falsify that belief - it doesn't matter whether Bitcoin is going up or down, or whether the trading driving the price involves tether, it's always tether.

Re: Bitcoin World’s 30th Largest Currency, Market Cap Closes on Mastercard

#12
post #9
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a value store? Clearly because of exposure. As a vehicle for trade? Not there yet, we need more adoption, aided by exposure.

Isn't the exposure making people less likely to trade? No-one wants to spend bitcoins because they're afraid they'll grow in value and they will have wasted money.

But people are trading all the time. The exchanges prove that: as many bitcoins bought as sold! :)

Will the buyers be willing to use those bitcoins to buy other things than fiat currencies? Once more products are sold in btc, why not?

Re: Bitcoin World’s 30th Largest Currency, Market Cap Closes on Mastercard

#13

I'm a bit weary. Say this cryptocurrency thing does take of and it's not a bubble. Then wouldn't this have similar effects that quantitative easing would have? I understand quantitative easing as 'printing money', because I'm not an economics person. But if this would take off and get a strong foothold at the prices that we're seeing now (bitcoin almost 10K in dollars), then didn't some subset of techies print a lot…

>then didn't some subset of techies print a lot more money than there is?

I think it's quite important that you watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AC6RSau7r8

If you feel extremely angry afterwards, you're not alone.

Re: Bitcoin World’s 30th Largest Currency, Market Cap Closes on Mastercard

#14
post #3

One key difference right now, though, is that I can use my Mastercard to pay for just about anythying just about anywhere I happen to be. In comparison to this worldwide acceptance as a means of payment, BTC seems just about worthless.

True, however BTC isn't that different from a credit card in terms of liquidity. Plastic is accepted at more merchants, BTC can be digitally cashed in anytime with only a short delay.

Re: Bitcoin World’s 30th Largest Currency, Market Cap Closes on Mastercard

#15
post #3

One key difference right now, though, is that I can use my Mastercard to pay for just about anythying just about anywhere I happen to be. In comparison to this worldwide acceptance as a means of payment, BTC seems just about worthless.

I've got two credit cards, a Visa and a MasterCard, both of them backed by my Bitcoin wallet. Where's the problem? I can pay with Bitcoin anywhere I could've paid with Visa/Mastercard .. this isn't about BtC vs. Visa/Mastercard.

Its about BtC vs. US$, &etc.

Re: Bitcoin World’s 30th Largest Currency, Market Cap Closes on Mastercard

#16
post #4
post #2

I honestly do not understand how this market cap comparison argument is useful in assessing the viability of Bitcoin.

As a value store? Clearly because of exposure. As a vehicle for trade? Not there yet, we need more adoption, aided by exposure.

Funnily enough, my grandparents were telling me about how they were suspicious of debit/credit cards when they first started. Now of course, they feel very comfortable using them. Not directly comparable with bitcoin, but interesting in the sense that it was a significant paradigm shift in the way money was spent - initially met with skepticism, but eventually it caught on.

Re: Bitcoin World’s 30th Largest Currency, Market Cap Closes on Mastercard

#17

I'm a bit weary. Say this cryptocurrency thing does take of and it's not a bubble. Then wouldn't this have similar effects that quantitative easing would have? I understand quantitative easing as 'printing money', because I'm not an economics person. But if this would take off and get a strong foothold at the prices that we're seeing now (bitcoin almost 10K in dollars), then didn't some subset of techies print a lot…

> But if this would take off and get a strong foothold at the prices that we're seeing now (bitcoin almost 10K in dollars), then didn't some subset of techies print a lot more money than there is?

Over the course of history, people crated money out of many physical objects that had the "money" properties. Money is a tool to represent value of exchange. As long as we all agree on it's value.

In the fiat world, the value of money is artificially fixed by the central banks and backed by the military power of its governments. it has effectively an unlimited supply. Quantitative easing is one of the techniques used to quickly increase the supply as it fits the central banks. You, me and all fiat money users have no say in it.

Bitcoin, is a limited amount of money supply that will ever exist. It is backed by math and cryptography and an open source ecosystem. It was decided so by us the people and not central banks. We didn't ask for their permission the same way as they don't ask for ours when they decide to print more.

Many of us believers in Bitcoin do not agree with the way central banks handle the most important tool of our civilization (Money) and do not agree with the current mainstream economic theory. So we decided to exit that system and try our own.

> To me it seems there might be a chance that we're devaluing real currencies by quite a bit over the course of the next couple of years. Of course, the bigger chance is that this is a bubble and it will pop, but what if it isn't?

If fiat currencies get devalued, and they will if the Bitcoin experiment works, then it would just mean fiat money is a weaker money than bitcoin (see Gresham Law[1]). In that case, is it the fault of the inventors if they invented a better system ?

As of the "speculative" nature of bitcoin, yes it is. What drives speculation is greed. Bitcoin at the protocol level is just a communication system. If you couple greed and Metacalfe's Law[2], you obtain a very powerful incentive for the system to grow.

I think of this incentive as a the trojan horse to the current financial system. People will come through greed and stay once they discover and learn about this new system, since it's not likely the central banks will "objectively" assess the value of Bitcoin.

The biggest part of humanity does not benefit from our current central bank system, so it has to get disrupted and replaced with a better one.

Either this, or we're stuck with the current unhuman, exploiting system. As an optimist, I'm betting on the former.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_law [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law

Re: Bitcoin World’s 30th Largest Currency, Market Cap Closes on Mastercard

#20

Not a currency. Doesn't have a 'market cap'.

Currency "refers to money in any form when in actual use or circulation as a medium of exchange".

Definitely is money in a relatively new form, that millions of people are using to facilitate exchanges. Why wouldn't BTC be considered currency?

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