Whenever I look at Kubernetes, I can't help myself but think that it's overcomplicated, with too many moving parts. Almost as if to incentivise using the hosted solutions instead of rolling it on your own on some VPSs. I can deploy a HA Swarm Mode cluster anywhere in minutes, while I'm not sure even where to start with Kubernetes. Do I use juju (recommended Ubuntu way), or do I use kubeadm? Which network add-on do I use? How do I upgrade (the procedure seems to be different with each version)?
Microsoft doubles down on Kubernetes for Azure
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Re: Microsoft doubles down on Kubernetes for Azure
#42Whenever I look at Kubernetes, I can't help myself but think that it's overcomplicated, with too many moving parts. Almost as if to incentivise using the hosted solutions instead of rolling it on your own on some VPSs. I can deploy a HA Swarm Mode cluster anywhere in minutes, while I'm not sure even where to start with Kubernetes. Do I use juju (recommended Ubuntu way), or do I use kubeadm? Which network add-on do I…
Well...at least it's not OpenStack!
Out of the couple of stacks I tried, kops was the easiest to set up. Juju and kubeadm were so-so.
Re: Microsoft doubles down on Kubernetes for Azure
#43Whenever I look at Kubernetes, I can't help myself but think that it's overcomplicated, with too many moving parts. Almost as if to incentivise using the hosted solutions instead of rolling it on your own on some VPSs. I can deploy a HA Swarm Mode cluster anywhere in minutes, while I'm not sure even where to start with Kubernetes. Do I use juju (recommended Ubuntu way), or do I use kubeadm? Which network add-on do I…
It doesn't help that most of the open source solutions to deploy a cluster are either poorly engineered (e.g. kubespray) or poorly maintained (e.g. kubeadm). You are on to something... organizations/people that have the capability and resources to make the toolings to manage Kubernetes setup complexity seem to think they're much better off if they charge for it.
Re: Microsoft doubles down on Kubernetes for Azure
#44Whenever I look at Kubernetes, I can't help myself but think that it's overcomplicated, with too many moving parts. Almost as if to incentivise using the hosted solutions instead of rolling it on your own on some VPSs. I can deploy a HA Swarm Mode cluster anywhere in minutes, while I'm not sure even where to start with Kubernetes. Do I use juju (recommended Ubuntu way), or do I use kubeadm? Which network add-on do I…
There's a way of setting up a bare-metal (or VMs) cluster using Ansible. It may be the sort of 'easy in' you may be looking for:
https://kubernetes.io/docs/getting-started-guides/fedora/fed...
If you manage to automate deployment of the VMs or physical nodes (e.g., PXE), you've got a cherry on top.
Re: Microsoft doubles down on Kubernetes for Azure
#45Whenever I look at Kubernetes, I can't help myself but think that it's overcomplicated, with too many moving parts. Almost as if to incentivise using the hosted solutions instead of rolling it on your own on some VPSs. I can deploy a HA Swarm Mode cluster anywhere in minutes, while I'm not sure even where to start with Kubernetes. Do I use juju (recommended Ubuntu way), or do I use kubeadm? Which network add-on do I…
If you’re not prepared to dedicate a small team to running Kubernetes, I’d say it’s too much for your needs.
Read the Borg paper for an idea of what k8s is meant to solve. If you have hundreds of services spread across 10s/100s of nodes, then the complexity of k8s starts to become amortized. Similarly if you have 100s of devs without a consistent way to do deployments, k8s starts to make sense.
Source: tech lead for a team managing a large on-prem and cloud k8s cluster.
Re: Microsoft doubles down on Kubernetes for Azure
#46Whenever I look at Kubernetes, I can't help myself but think that it's overcomplicated, with too many moving parts. Almost as if to incentivise using the hosted solutions instead of rolling it on your own on some VPSs. I can deploy a HA Swarm Mode cluster anywhere in minutes, while I'm not sure even where to start with Kubernetes. Do I use juju (recommended Ubuntu way), or do I use kubeadm? Which network add-on do I…
+1
highly agreed. I'm actually surprised that most people dont try Docker Swarmkit. It is unbelievably good for what it does.
Re: Microsoft doubles down on Kubernetes for Azure
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, I have played with AKS. You do not pay for the Kubernetes masters, just the nodes. In the prior version of the product (ACS) you would specify a cluster size as a number of masters and a number of workers/nodes. In AKS, you only manage the latter and Azure abstracts away the Kubernetes API. https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/details/container-...
> Yes, I have played with AKS. You do not pay for the Kubernetes masters, just the nodes. In the prior version of the product (ACS) you would specify a cluster size as a number of masters and a number of workers/nodes. In AKS, you only manage the latter and Azure abstracts away the Kubernetes API. On GKE, if i run a Kubernetes cluster of size 1, I'm still charged for a single VM. You're saying that if I do the equiva…
Based on the comments in this thread GCE charges you for masters on clusters with 6 or more nodes, while MS AKS will only charge you for the nodes.
As with anything cloud related, though: it's all about relevant cost calculations for the specific solution...
Re: Microsoft doubles down on Kubernetes for Azure
#48I really, really hope aws joins the game. re:invent is around the corner.
One of the re:Invent talk descriptions referenced something called "Elastic Container Service for Kubernetes (EKS)". Make of that what you will.
Re: Microsoft doubles down on Kubernetes for Azure
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fortunately there's a bunch of ingress controllers you can use: Traefik, Voyager, HAProxy, and probably several others. And it's surprisingly trivial to write your own. So ingresses is not currently a weak point in relation to vendor lock-in happens. And Kubernetes already supports plenty of non-Google tech; as an open source project, Kubernetes is refreshingly non-Google-focused (there are a bunch of players, notabl…
>> As an aside, the current ingresses (including the Nginx one and Google's own GLB one) all have annoying deficiencies Agree, this is along the lines of what I meant. For example GCE ingress allows you to reference a global static IP while this is not possible with solely nginx ingress due to limitations with the TCP load balancer. There are separate ingress annotations for GKE/nginx/haproxy, etc. If I want to use t…
Totally fair points, and vendor lock-in is something to be highly vigilant of.
For some context, though: the ingress functionality is rather recent in Kubernetes and is still fleshing out in terms of demands in the market and across cloud providers. Another year or two will do a lot for equality and saner networking solutions for small-scale and bespoke K8s deployments.
I got a little shock that I had to set up an ingress controller on each of my nodes (on our VMWare cluster), but going through the nuts and bolts of it I can see why it's hanging a bit behind the rest of the product. I think the devs are being smart letting the ecosystem mature a little instead of pushing out something half-baked and prematurely limiting.
Re: Microsoft doubles down on Kubernetes for Azure
#50So restaurants give you ketchup for "free" too, but turns out you're paying for it. This is stupid to say the management node is free, you're just paying for it in another way. Now if they said they were able to run the node so cost effectively that it's just included in the hourly node cost, then that's a plus.
For SMBs and smaller dev shops kicking off their forays into container development, not to mention customer deployments, the simplified cost models make it more management friendly and more understandable to non-IT actors.
Whether it is absolutely cheaper than GCE or whatever, and if master management is a requirement, is a separate comparison based on the solution. Cutting out the management node costs removes a barrier to entry and creates a more streamlined product.
Oh, it also makes their Kubernetes services usable within the free credits they give out on Azure via their MSDN subscriptions... so suddenly millions of devs can use AKS for demos and temp-hosting "for free", which is huge in creating mindshare in the Enterprise...