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What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

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Re: What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

#81

Post by oceanghost »

unfunco wrote: post #38
oceanghost wrote: post #37

Through meditative and other techniques, I have learned that-- at least for myself-- that "I" am the result of a conversation of a number of what you might call entities, personalities, archetypal emotions, drives, and other things I am not yet able to classify. My consciousness-- the surface most of us have access to, tries to make sense of these conversations and form them into a cohesive illusion/narrative in whic…

Have you experimented with dimethyltryptamine before? I would be interested to know if a commitment to meditation could induce similar effects. What you have described sounds similar to common effects from chemicals such as N,N-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT. Alternatively, could those effects be reached more easily through sensory deprivation?

I have but I don't like psychs in general. I've had the best luck personally with arylcyclohexylamines.

A friend of mine who did meditation seriously told me he had heard of this as an "advanced technique", but I really don't know. :)

Re: What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

#82

Post by trevyn »

arbie wrote: post #54
fierro wrote: post #48

Anyone interested in this thread should read Godel, Escher, Bach, or at least it's preface

Any tips on how to approach G.E.B.? I have tried a few times now, but it seemed simultaneously too dense and abstract.

Read it out loud (to someone else if you like), and don’t try too hard to understand it — if you don’t get a section on first read, just keep going, it’ll make more sense as you process it subconsciously.

Re: What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

#83

Post by zaarn »

johndoe489 wrote: post #46
tnzn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really ? I don't believe in free will, to a large extent, and this doesn't stop me from trying to do good. And doesn't the idea of "free will" also do harm ? Such as when people just discard mental health issues as "just matter of will" ?

> I don't believe in free will, to a large extent, and this doesn't stop me from trying to do good. So, you believe in free will.

I also subscribe to the belief that there is no free will.

This doesn't mean I don't want to do good or don't want to see murderers jailed.

It simply means that if the universe was rewound like a VHS tape and played again, nothing would change. That our actions are fully deterministic.

If free will existed then rewinding the universe and playing forward again would result in different outcomes.

Re: What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

#85

Post by posterboy »

unfunco wrote: post #38
oceanghost wrote: post #37

Through meditative and other techniques, I have learned that-- at least for myself-- that "I" am the result of a conversation of a number of what you might call entities, personalities, archetypal emotions, drives, and other things I am not yet able to classify. My consciousness-- the surface most of us have access to, tries to make sense of these conversations and form them into a cohesive illusion/narrative in whic…

Have you experimented with dimethyltryptamine before? I would be interested to know if a commitment to meditation could induce similar effects. What you have described sounds similar to common effects from chemicals such as N,N-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT. Alternatively, could those effects be reached more easily through sensory deprivation?

if the body produces dmt (precursors or sumsuch), then yes.

Re: What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

#86

Post by ThomPete »

EGreg wrote: post #61
ThomPete wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about it this way: It's an illusion, but the illusion is real. Or think about it this way: We simulate a reality (the illusion). Or how about this. We are pattern recognizing feedback loops (illusion) Do we really need to know what consciousness is as a thing or have we perhaps by now realized that question doesn't really make sense because consciousness is not a thing. It doesn't exist somewhere. It's a concep…

Yep, I think our ideas are shaped by our language. Same thing with the idea of "existence". It actually requires consciousness to make any sense. The two concepts are actually dual of each other! Thought experiment: if I told you about a parallel universe which you would never be able to detect, or deduce from any phenomena in this one ... how is then saying "it exists" different from saying "it doesn't exist?" Now i…

Can see you edited so let me add that i am also living without a religion. I agree that everything is subjective, but that doesent mean we can't build moral or ethical foundations for how we live together. There are plenty of shared foundation even if its an illusion to build upon.

Re: What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

#87

Post by malmsteen »

internetman55 wrote: post #67
oceanghost wrote: post #37

Through meditative and other techniques, I have learned that-- at least for myself-- that "I" am the result of a conversation of a number of what you might call entities, personalities, archetypal emotions, drives, and other things I am not yet able to classify. My consciousness-- the surface most of us have access to, tries to make sense of these conversations and form them into a cohesive illusion/narrative in whic…

I don't know why people experiment with bizarre techniques and experimental drugs. Western Europeans could just follow the Christian tradition to achieve better results more safely. People have been studying this stuff for millennia. Unfortunately we're so confused nowadays that people are gonna think of Jesus Camp and jumping around and shouting when they think of Christianity.

There is 0 reason not to experiment though. And Christianity is just one religion amongst 10 major other religions so there's no reason to think it has all the answers (especially considering the many mistakes it has done in the assessment of various scientific facts..)

Re: What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

#89

Post by internetman55 »

malmsteen wrote: post #87
internetman55 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why people experiment with bizarre techniques and experimental drugs. Western Europeans could just follow the Christian tradition to achieve better results more safely. People have been studying this stuff for millennia. Unfortunately we're so confused nowadays that people are gonna think of Jesus Camp and jumping around and shouting when they think of Christianity.

There is 0 reason not to experiment though. And Christianity is just one religion amongst 10 major other religions so there's no reason to think it has all the answers (especially considering the many mistakes it has done in the assessment of various scientific facts..)

Assuming that I'm speaking to someone of Western European descent, I see no reason to jettison the tradition that your ancestors (i.e. people with similar genetic, cultural, and temperamental factors) slowly developed over time in order to experiment with random things unless you are specifically anti-Christian. The truth is that spirituality can be quite dangerous if you do the wrong things, and if you're gonna start pulling things out of random traditions or the pharmacy with no cultural context for them, I think you're gonna be taking very unnecessary risks.

For whatever reason, foreign religious figures such as the Dalai Lama have more cachet than Christian figures in the minds of many modern people, and from what I understand he has stated the same thing:

"Whenever I give a large teaching, I always make clear that it is safer to follow your own traditions, rather than change to another tradition," he said. "There's less confusion. Here in the West, I do not think it advisable to follow Buddhism. Changing religions is not like changing professions. Excitement lessons over the years, and soon you are not excited, and then where are you? Homeless inside yourself."

Some folks get so tied up to their anti-Christian sentiment that they'll try to join foreign religions they have no understanding of instead of just reading what the doctors of the Church have to say about the interior life, and admitting that maybe they were a bit hasty in writing off such a complex and beautiful tradition.

Re: What if consciousness is not what drives the human mind?

#90

Post by suf »

internetman55 wrote: post #89
malmsteen wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is 0 reason not to experiment though. And Christianity is just one religion amongst 10 major other religions so there's no reason to think it has all the answers (especially considering the many mistakes it has done in the assessment of various scientific facts..)

Assuming that I'm speaking to someone of Western European descent, I see no reason to jettison the tradition that your ancestors (i.e. people with similar genetic, cultural, and temperamental factors) slowly developed over time in order to experiment with random things unless you are specifically anti-Christian. The truth is that spirituality can be quite dangerous if you do the wrong things, and if you're gonna star…

Should your ancestors have stuck to their traditions, instead of adopting the foreign Christianity?

It's absolutely ok to be anti-Christian (i.e critical of Christian doctrine). I agree with you that the enthusiasm towards other traditions of spirituality is perplexing, but I would disagree that Christianity offers any sort of more valuable refuge.

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