Live data from Hacker News

Evidence that collaboration results in group-think and mediocrity

inc.com

51–60 of 63 posts

Re: Evidence that collaboration results in group-think and mediocrity

#51
post #48
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are plenty people like that. In open source software, we see lot of people writing "exact clone" of some software (usually a game). And often, they get the job done. They decidedly don't want to be creative, they just want the clone of the thing. Actually, it's often how you get the work done. Too much creativity is a problem. Linus started his work on Linux kernel because he wanted a Minix clone. It wa…

This is nonsense. For some convoluted definition of “creative”, this perspective holds. The open source clones you mention are arguably not technically innovative (or some other word that stems from “novel”), but I’d argue that releasing a clone under a permissive license is novel (and creative), too.

Is translating a Terry Pratchett novel from English to Czech a creative endeavor?

You can argue that on some level, yes, any translation is creative. But I don't think it's the same as writing an original novel (even if the result is bad). On some level, it's decidedly non-creative (and that's what the GP asked about), because you already have the characters, the story, the words. And apparently, some people are fine with already having all that. (It's even not deemed creative enough to be considered different for the copyright.)

Is coloring a coloring-book creative? Compared to making your own drawings?

Re: Evidence that collaboration results in group-think and mediocrity

#52
post #8

Creativity seems unimpeded when the one being creative is at the very top of the hierarchy. It doesn't really work for anyone else unless they have a direct contribution and connection to the dictator though. Any requirement that new stuff be reviewed by committee (e.g. a board of directors) will tend to destroy anything truly innovative. Why? Because the creative people can see much further than the (much less invol…

I've come to the conclusion that this often also applies to the founder / VC relationship. The best angels and VCs are relatively hands off, providing counsel when asked, hook ups and intros, and other resources but otherwise letting the founder steer the ship. Activist VCs tend to destroy anything innovative.

Re: Evidence that collaboration results in group-think and mediocrity

#53
post #15
post #8

Creativity seems unimpeded when the one being creative is at the very top of the hierarchy. It doesn't really work for anyone else unless they have a direct contribution and connection to the dictator though. Any requirement that new stuff be reviewed by committee (e.g. a board of directors) will tend to destroy anything truly innovative. Why? Because the creative people can see much further than the (much less invol…

This old blog post argues that wisdom of crowds works well for estimating facts, but poorly for creative thinking, even so far as to say: "Votes become vetoes". Because people don't choose what they like the most, they choose against thing they like the least. "Ignoring the wisdom of crowds" https://blog.asmartbear.com/ignoring-the-wisdom-of-crowds.ht...

Choosing against is how I've voted in every presidential election. I have never really felt good about a candidate, only that they were less bad than the other. E.g. I voted Clinton even though I can't stand a lot of her policies because I thought Trump was worse. Vote as veto.

Re: Evidence that collaboration results in group-think and mediocrity

#54
post #51
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense. For some convoluted definition of “creative”, this perspective holds. The open source clones you mention are arguably not technically innovative (or some other word that stems from “novel”), but I’d argue that releasing a clone under a permissive license is novel (and creative), too.

Is translating a Terry Pratchett novel from English to Czech a creative endeavor? You can argue that on some level, yes, any translation is creative. But I don't think it's the same as writing an original novel (even if the result is bad). On some level, it's decidedly non-creative (and that's what the GP asked about), because you already have the characters, the story, the words. And apparently, some people are fine…

Is coloring creative? I think that's a different question from whether a complete, clean re-implementation of a software library is creative.

As for that question though, I'll push it a bit further - is drawing an outline of a bird creative? I'd argue it's more interesting than the next person coloring the bird. But it's also decidedly less interesting that what evolution has done in generating a bird from billions of years of evolution.

But I'd say yeah, something was created because the artist had a desire for the bird, and then produced it. Or, the artist (for some definition) had a desire for a green bird, then colored it. Of course, neither the drawing of the bird nor the coloring was novel.

So as it's not an autonomous manufacturing process, it's creative. Your bones generating blood cells is not creative work.

Software that adds colors between lines isn't itself creative, but the person who developed the software used creativity.

* I'm not a philosopher.

Re: Evidence that collaboration results in group-think and mediocrity

#55
post #50

Oustanding progress usually comes from individuals, not from outstanding groups. Consider Newton, Archimedes, da Vinci, Jesus Christ, Luther, Gutenberg, Mozart, Einstein, Zuse, Edison, and others. They changed the world. Unfortunately, there is also evil genius (in wickedness) of individuals [1]: Jack the Ripper, Hitler, Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hussein, etc. [1] https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-all-t…

Or as one evil genius observed:

When groups of small men attempt great enterprises they always end by reducing them to the level of their own mediocrity (Napoleon)

Or as one modern creative genius put it:

What do you care what other people think? (Feynman)

Re: Evidence that collaboration results in group-think and mediocrity

#56
Groupthink is the loss of critical thinking as a consequence of cohesion and conflict avoidance.

Groupthink can be avoided if the culture rewards critical thinking. That includes:

- team members should be free to dissent from the majority if there's a reason.

- team members should keep a reasonable level of skepticism when it comes to other members' claims. if someone shows high confidence, that confidence should be also be subject to skepticism.

- if someone wishes to communicate their opinion, it needs to be done explicitly. e.g: in my opinion, . Interleaving opinions and facts creates unnecessary noise and bias. Usage of superlatives should be kept to a minimum as well.

Re: Evidence that collaboration results in group-think and mediocrity

#58

This is a junk article in my opinion. I ran the global collaboration open source environment for sony Playstation last decade and was heavily involved with 'enterprise 2.0' in the web 2.0 era. The idea that 'collaboration' is cramming everyone into an open plan office is idiotic and has more to do with corporate cost saving than any coherent attempt at getting people to work better together. Remote/home working colla…

I think it's collaboration by choice vs. collaboration by dictate. I had an awful time having to work with people that weren't at my level. And the work (not calling it "my" work, btw) always suffered as a result.

Then in my most recent project, I've done some of the best work of my life in conjunction with a collaborator. She was someone I chose, and we both brought our respective disciplines to bear. We were both quite open to and respectful of each other's input. But a lot of our work was done in solitude. Sometimes one or the other would bring a surprise to the next meeting, a distinctly different yet more elegant solution to the problem we set out to solve. It was easy for either of us to cast aside prior agreements and accept the more awesome result.

In previous jobs, I would be chastised for "going rogue" if I took a side journey to make something awesome. Some managers are blind to benefits like reductions in customer support/general headaches, increase in usability, reduction of time and motion, or just the general wow factor, when they are looking at meeting minutes.

IMO Collaboration is like any other tool. It can work fantastically when employed by skilled practitioners. And will produce shoddy results in the hands of the unskilled. Ego, pride and self-obsession also contribute to failure. It takes a somewhat enlightened person to be willing to let someone else in to their creative process. To accept criticism as a necessary part of the process of making great work, instead of taking it personally. To go to the mat as the lone dissenting voice when they know they're on to something great. And to know the difference when their own idea is something really great vs. gratuitous crap.

Re: Evidence that collaboration results in group-think and mediocrity

#59
post #36

Article seems pretty bad. It already starts of horrendously when they call the journal "ScienceDirect.com". That's just Elsevier's site. The journal is called "Personality and Individual Differences." Furthermore, this is how the study assessed creativity: > creativity was assessed with 10 items (e.g., “I have a vivid imagination”) from the International Personality Item Pool [...]. Participants rated the accuracy of…

It’s so bad that I decided to put “Inc.” in my garbage media blacklist. After scanning their previous articles posted to HN, I relialized that I should have done it sooner.

Is your "garbage meda blacklist" only a metaphor or do you actually have one. if that's the case, how do you maintain it and how do let it affect your browsing (e.g. do you block the site or simply have a document somewhere sitting on your computer containing the list)?

Re: Evidence that collaboration results in group-think and mediocrity

#60

Article seems pretty bad. It already starts of horrendously when they call the journal "ScienceDirect.com". That's just Elsevier's site. The journal is called "Personality and Individual Differences." Furthermore, this is how the study assessed creativity: > creativity was assessed with 10 items (e.g., “I have a vivid imagination”) from the International Personality Item Pool [...]. Participants rated the accuracy of…

Reminds me of http://programming-motherfucker.com/

Entertaining but a bit sad. Clearly had bad experiences with collaboration and believe they are unique rockstars who only have to produce code, rather than a product that people want.

Post reply on HN