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A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

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Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#401

Post by yuhong »

auvrw wrote: post #384
yuhong wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in the long term, even local farming is probably a better idea than the current debt-based economy that depends on imported goods from for example China, especially when even central farming with long distance shipping of foods has its costs.

the farm in my family indirectly exports some crops to China (as in crops go to a port which takes them to China): the import/export relationship is not one-way. it (China) is a large country by population, and while that's got to be one of the factors driving economic growth --- steel industry and various forms of tech and manufacturing (rise of ODMs, etc.) --- now that the government is increasingly (indirectly) op…

I am talking about all goods not just food, and not claiming there are zero exports either. And yes, part of the reason we got off the gold standard was military spending. Even now I like to mention that the more NSA/FBI spends, the more money is printed using government debt.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#402

Post by tluyben2 »

sumedh wrote: post #254
tluyben2 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it tastes better; maybe it's what i'm used to but I find pasteurized milk quite horrible. Maybe it's just taste and other people love the taste of pasteurized. Never met those people, but that says nothing either. Raw milk cheese is also a lot nicer in my opinion.

Have you done a blind test, if not whatever you are saying is meaningless

I said that it means nothing so I agree. But you wanted to be snarky anyway which is your right ;)

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#403

Post by tudorw »

ruc0la wrote: post #282
mikewhy wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted I'm just a software developer, we have a whole processing team of GIS people that can go into more detail. And we are focused on vineyards. Here's a blog post we made to explain the difference, the jist is NDVI can change throughout the day while EVI is more stable: https://skysquirrel.ca/2017/07/evi-vs-ndvi-whats-difference/

Thank you guys I will check out the linked sites; I haven't purchased the drone yet. I do not want to spend, too much (1-2k in €) so maybe I will use a service instead. I am pretty familiar with GIS, and I use it on a regular basis for the orchard (I am experimenting with almond as we have a warmer microclimate here in the valley).

here's a paper looking at which indexes work with corn, wheat and irrigation water, it's very likely each crop will have an index that is more accurate;

"The following spectral indices were examined: Difference Vegetation Index (DVI), Normalized Difference Vegetation Index (NDVI), Enhanced Vegetation Index (EVI), Difference Water Index (DWI), Normalized Difference Water Index (NDWI), Difference Drought Index (DDI) and Normalized Difference Drought Index (NDDI). "

https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/jengeo.2015.8.issue-...

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#404

Post by randomdata »

CydeWeys wrote: post #327
MAGZine wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends where you live, and what you farm. In the case of e.g. cereal crops in the north, there are 4-6 months where you can do little beyond some maintenance, buying/selling equipment, planning next year's crop, etc. that means there is plenty of time for vacations. You are right that during seeding or harvest (especially), all bets for travel are off. But, it is incorrect to imply that because you farm, you ought t…

Animals need taking care of every day year-round. There's very few homesteaders who don't have at least some egg-laying chickens. I have a feeling you're thinking more about industrial-scale monoculture farmers, but that's not what the linked article is talking about.

> I have a feeling you're thinking more about industrial-scale monoculture farmers

That seems to be what the article is about. The first case study is a vegetable farm, without any hint that they produce anything else. They are also industrial-scale, else they would be considered gardeners, not farmers.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#405

Post by dghughes »

rmrm wrote: post #366
discreteevent wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had about 20 chickens and this is exactly what we did. Not sure why you got downvoted.

Talking about farmscale agriculture, it's hundreds of chickens at least. If it's pastured, they likely need to be moved quite often. Chickens are likely easiest, but on a scale to produce a living for a family, I don't think any type of farming or ranching is low effort or easy to step away from.

I bet most people don't know chickens need light to lay eggs, their egg laying will slow down as the days grow shorter. Plus they will kill each other if even the slightest bit of blood appears. And the smell oh the smell!

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#406

Post by dghughes »

driverdan wrote: post #300
JPKab wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a rural community where farming was basically the only industry. It's easy to talk about how awesome it is when you basically are selling insanely overpriced boutique goods (organic, free-range, etc) to yuppies who are willing to pay triple for their calories. Once enough people do this, the prices fall and you're just another farmer, scraping by. I grew up working on farms. It's not romantic to me in an…

I wish I could upvote you twice. For some reason many people who have never farmed have this romantic vision of it. In reality farming is extremely hard work and requires a wide range of skills and knowledge to be successful. If you're good at it you can make decent money but someone who's only worked desk jobs is not going to be good, at least not for a while.

Not just hard work but dangerous. So many people including children have been killed or maimed working on farms. What makes it is farms are all family operation not some factory.

Farming must be the last industry in the western world that has children working in it and it's seen as OK.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#407

Post by michaelbuckbee »

tspike wrote: post #318
roadnottaken wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good points, but I totally disagree about the suburbs. We live on a quiet cul de sac in a very suburban neighborhood. We’re 20 minutes from mountains, trails, beach, schools, stores, and work. It’s safe and friendly and our kids play with other kids in the street every day. Seems like a pretty sweet compromise to me, but YMMV.

To each his own. To me, the utter dependence on automobiles, the blatantly wasteful lifestyle and the oppression of HOAs feels claustrophobic, dissonant and excessive. I feel depressed when I have to battle traffic to get access to nature.

Something I never considered when I was younger was how much these things are a spectrum and that there is no bright dividing line between many of these choices.

As an example: I'm living in what's definitely the suburbs (VA Beach), but within easy walking distance of the local coffee shop, groceries, my kids school, etc.

We don't have an HOA, but know a lot of our neighbors. I have a car, but don't use it much b/c of both location and that I work from home.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#408

Post by crimsonalucard »

iancmceachern wrote: post #395
crimsonalucard wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any developers have aquaponics systems setup? I've been thinking of doing this.

Lots of exciting things going on in this space. There is also an Open Source Movement that came out of the MiT Media Lab, called OpenAg ( https://www.media.mit.edu/groups/open-agriculture-openag/ove... ) which has created a platform for folks like our company, Open Agriculture Supply ( https://www.openagriculturesupply.com/ ) to create "Food Computers" which are climate controlled boxes that grow food for you indoors…

I'm talking about a different space.

A closed loop farming ecosystem where plants filter water and fish fertilize plants. There's a lot piping and artificial structure to facilitate this type of environment but the control system is largely self regulating, there is less need for a computer to intervene, although it wouldn't hurt.

See: http://homeaquaponicssystem.com/basics/hydroponics-vs-aquapo...

In my research, aquaponics is the most nutrient dense farming system available. My eventual goal is to produce a farming system that can live on a single typical suburban property, function with minimal care and produce enough yield to feed a single family. That's right, Fish and veggies on my plate from my farm, daily.

The openAg platform seems great, however to make it fit with aquaponics it would need pH control system and a separate tank for fish.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#409

Post by clord »

vogt wrote: post #141
clord wrote: post #112

We did this. My wife has a masters in microbio, and I worked at IBM on their C++ and for Fortran compilers for about 8 years (yay std::atomics). I still do remote contract work to help pay for upgrades to the farm. Would be nice to get one of my side-projects finished and start pumping out some income streams, but it's not a big rush anymore. I have a point of sale system built with React and Haskell that integrates…

Here's a question about adjustment to rural life, because I have been daydreaming about this for a long time: Are you now isolated from existing friends and family? That's really my one big worry. I'm super burned out on software, and currently facing all the same concerns it sounds like you did before, it just frightens me the idea of being further removed (geographically) from the few family and friends we have lef…

We are lucky to have lots of family on the farm here with us, so it was actually a bit of an upgrade in terms of family connections. It's multi-generational. Leaving friends behind was the biggest adjustment. That and Toronto food/music are the biggest adjustments for us.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#410

Post by clord »

cvsh wrote: post #364
clord wrote: post #112

We did this. My wife has a masters in microbio, and I worked at IBM on their C++ and for Fortran compilers for about 8 years (yay std::atomics). I still do remote contract work to help pay for upgrades to the farm. Would be nice to get one of my side-projects finished and start pumping out some income streams, but it's not a big rush anymore. I have a point of sale system built with React and Haskell that integrates…

So you started in 2011-2012. What happens when the next downturn comes and people stop buying "expensive pasture fed eggs etc"? This is my fear about doing something like this. Boutique farming seems like it would similar to the oil industry in how especially sensitive it is to economic cyclicality. Having spent the past 5+ years farming surely complicates the process of getting a job in tech during a contraction.

Not worried about it. First, we're not really "boutique". We don't dress anything up. It's all used machines and old bags. We charge more because that's our real cost plus a small profit...

I figure thing happening in food right now is not so much a trend. Food prices are artificially low by historical measures. As the subsidies granted by cheap oil-based fertilizers goes away and diesel-powered harvesting starts to be less cost-competitive, the prices will go back to historical norms. People want the industrial system to stop cutting the corners they have been (believe me they tell us) so we make profit from those who are ahead of the curve.

The way I look at it: normal food has been getting more expensive over the past 100 years and is now considered "boutique" by some. There has been a fad in cheap food that is starting to wind up as it is no longer possible to maintain. It's time to get in front of that before your food costs rise. More importantly it's time to start teaching kids how to do it too as they're going to really be in the post-climate-change world where viable solar-powered food is the most valuable thing to have a startup in.

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