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VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

reuters.com

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Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#91

Post by taneq »

ju-st wrote: post #57
JohnGB wrote: post #41

Okay, so it's okay to go after an engineer at VW for gaming the system, and causing higher emissions than everyone thought, but not okay to go after bankers for fraud which screwed the world economy? I'm not saying that the engineer shouldn't be responsible - he should - but it's an extreme double standard.

Banks are too big to fail in the US. German car companies are not too big to fail in the US.

I'm starting to think that the measure of "too big to fail" is campaign donations, not percentage of GDP or something.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#92

Post by hutzlibu »

zardo wrote: post #90
hutzlibu wrote: post #87

The astonishing thing for me is, that this is not at all new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_device Yet everybody involved acts totally surprised. So good, that they do strong punishments, but maybe don't stop with VW, as others apparently do the same now (or working on it to put it silently under the carpet). Which makes me wonder if there is some backdoor agreement, that VW gets the public shame now, but reci…

This is a baseless conspiracy theory. Cheating is not par for the course, it was shocking to the emissions compliance community that VW had blatently lied and cheated. The history of defeat devices is... complicated. Keep in mind the EPA chief is a political appointment. Their own interpretations of their own regulations can vary significantly from one administration to the next.

Erm, do you count the wikipedia article as a conspiracy theory as well?

edit: which is the base of my "baseless" theory which I clearly stated as a possible theory, not a fact

edit2: and maybe mark your edits, as edits? Otherwise it looks like manipulative arguing.

And to me defeat devices seem not so complicated. Simply cheating. VW just took it to a new level.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#93

Post by germanier »

Tomte wrote: post #52
kome wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW and the German government are basically "cooperating" on everything [1] [2] [3]. It's extremely naive to think that VW will get a fair trail in Germany. [1] https://qz.com/1045619/germanys-diesel-scandal-shines-a-ligh... [2] http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/09/05/lobbying-data-re... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/02/world/europe/germany-volk...

The German government doesn't control the prosecution. Especially not because it's not a federal investigation. Criminal matters are state matters, with very few exceptions. And to counter your next try: No, the government of Lower Saxony does not control the prosecution either.

Last time I checked the prosecution was bound by instructions (§ 147 GVG), in this case by the government of Lower Saxony. Of course there are some limits to this and I'm not saying anything like that happened here.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#94

Post by TimPC »

wffurr wrote: post #54
baddox wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a good enough reason though? That would depend on the likelihood of losing your job by refusing, the ease of finding a different job, the seriousness of the unethical request, and the likelihood of getting caught.

When asked why you were fired, being able to say "I was asked to do something illegal or unethical" is a strong response. That certainly helps with the "find a new job" part.

I'd suggest you drop the "or unethical" part if you're actually going to actually use this. The law is a fair amount more objective (still lots of subjectivity but it's not perceived to be as subjective) whereas personal ethical standards are extremely subjective (and perceived that way). Many companies see the former as 'I don't want to break the law and go to jail' and the latter as 'I get to impose my personal standard of ethics on all my bosses and the entire company and if they don't like it I'll throw a fit and quit in the middle of a critical project while accusing them of being monsters.' If you can add the word repeatedly, it might help. It suggests you wouldn't do something illegal but wouldn't quit if someone asked you once (possibly by mistake not knowing it was illegal) but if you get asked again after you clarified it was illegal and you wouldn't do it and they wanted you to do it anyway that leads to you quitting.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#95

Post by jeffdavis »

Dolores12 wrote: post #68
baddox wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a good enough reason though? That would depend on the likelihood of losing your job by refusing, the ease of finding a different job, the seriousness of the unethical request, and the likelihood of getting caught.

Keep evidence to cover your back just in case

Evidence of what? Your crime? Or that someone told you to commit a crime, and you did?

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#96

Post by TimPC »

gech wrote: post #56
wffurr wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When asked why you were fired, being able to say "I was asked to do something illegal or unethical" is a strong response. That certainly helps with the "find a new job" part.

I could easily see the interviewer twist this to ask the next question "But does that mean you won't be loyal to us??"

The problem is that this question often goes unasked so you don't get to answer it you just get evaluated on the perception of this concern.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#97

Post by hanbura »

Ardren wrote: post #12
skrebbel wrote: post #7

Fantastic precedent. When your boss tells you to do something unethical and possibly illegal, you now have a great reason to say no.

... and go find a new job

That depends highly on the local employment laws. In Germany being fired for refusing illegal or unethical tasks screams for unlawful termination. That means a court case, which means the unethical request will become public knowledge. That's a huge thread even if the employer wins in court.

Here your job would be safe, though you could be put in some dead-end position where you eventually leave on your own. Or you are offered a good deal for leaving quietly.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#98

Post by CGamesPlay »

ImSkeptical wrote: post #55
baddox wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a good enough reason though? That would depend on the likelihood of losing your job by refusing, the ease of finding a different job, the seriousness of the unethical request, and the likelihood of getting caught.

Don't say "No" then, but agree and report to the authorities.

But that would increase the likelihood of losing your job by refusing and decrease the ease of finding a different job?

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#100

Post by EpicEng »

ImSkeptical wrote: post #55
baddox wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a good enough reason though? That would depend on the likelihood of losing your job by refusing, the ease of finding a different job, the seriousness of the unethical request, and the likelihood of getting caught.

Don't say "No" then, but agree and report to the authorities.

Losing your job either way in all likelihood.
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