Live data from Hacker News

VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

reuters.com

81–90 of 134 posts

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#81
post #54
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a good enough reason though? That would depend on the likelihood of losing your job by refusing, the ease of finding a different job, the seriousness of the unethical request, and the likelihood of getting caught.

When asked why you were fired, being able to say "I was asked to do something illegal or unethical" is a strong response. That certainly helps with the "find a new job" part.

It actually does not help to say this answer, it would go over badly in 95% of interviews no matter how egregious the unethical request. The interviewer typically questions if you're being truthful and if they will be accused of the same in the future. When I worked as an agent, we generally coached people to state one of the other reasons they quit or were fired and if ever asked the interview question "Have you ever been asked to do something illegal or unethical?" to just answer "No."

The only time you're allowed to mention this is when it becomes easily verifiable in something like a newspaper. I actually have personal experience in one of my jobs where the owners very casually asked me to do some unethical things and then shrugged it off. At the time I highly suspected I was fired because of it, but had no evidence. So for years at interviews when asked why I was fired, my answer was "Nepotism," which is true because they replaced me with an incompetent relative. The FTC shut them down 5 years after I was fired. I only mention it if the employer tries to verify past employment and asks why the phone number doesn't work.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#82
post #7

Fantastic precedent. When your boss tells you to do something unethical and possibly illegal, you now have a great reason to say no.

> Fantastic precedent.

That engineers will be thrown in jail while CEOs will walk away scot-free?

Yeah. Fantastic.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#83
post #7

Fantastic precedent. When your boss tells you to do something unethical and possibly illegal, you now have a great reason to say no.

> Fantastic precedent. That engineers will be thrown in jail while CEOs will walk away scot-free? Yeah. Fantastic.

Right. This is after he cooperated with authorities. It's the ones who didn't cooperate who should be going to jail.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#84

Not enough, and I have a feeling that he should've been one of the dozens, if not hundreds. Fraud in the case is commuted upon the buyers and everyone that breathes that air (cancers, asthma...etc). You're talking tens of billions. Go rob a store and you get a lot more jail time. Yeah the store owner and 3 customer were traumatized but so were the thousands or millions of people that suffered (directly or indirectly)…

I think the re-calibrated software that hurt performance and fuel economy caused customers to suffer a lot more than the pollution did.

I am thoroughly enjoying the fact that your comment is at the bottom of the page.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#85
post #7

Fantastic precedent. When your boss tells you to do something unethical and possibly illegal, you now have a great reason to say no.

Sure, but you'll get fired anyway with no legal recourse. At least in most of the US.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are such organisations?

Without putting words into w_t_payne's mouth (and at risk of incurring the ire of HNers who are wary of them), unions would be one such form of organization. Other such organizations might include software engineering guilds but I don't think such guilds generally act to protect the interests of software engineers collectively or individually. For various historical and professional reasons, software developers have…

Without getting too much into politics, I agree with you 100%, unions are the way to go.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#87
The astonishing thing for me is, that this is not at all new:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_device

Yet everybody involved acts totally surprised.

So good, that they do strong punishments, but maybe don't stop with VW, as others apparently do the same now (or working on it to put it silently under the carpet). Which makes me wonder if there is some backdoor agreement, that VW gets the public shame now, but recieves funding/legal aid, etc. from other companies as they are all involved in this and they don't want VW do the aggressive defense, of "everybody else is doing it as well" ...

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#88
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When asked why you were fired, being able to say "I was asked to do something illegal or unethical" is a strong response. That certainly helps with the "find a new job" part.

It actually does not help to say this answer, it would go over badly in 95% of interviews no matter how egregious the unethical request. The interviewer typically questions if you're being truthful and if they will be accused of the same in the future. When I worked as an agent, we generally coached people to state one of the other reasons they quit or were fired and if ever asked the interview question "Have you eve…

I would tend to agree with this. Many top managers want people who will do dirty work for them if told to, especially in the usual case where they themselves are at little risk from prosecution themselves. Particularly in certain fields like finance, a strong sense of morality or ethics would be perceived as a serious liability.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#89
post #52
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW and the German government are basically "cooperating" on everything [1] [2] [3]. It's extremely naive to think that VW will get a fair trail in Germany. [1] https://qz.com/1045619/germanys-diesel-scandal-shines-a-ligh... [2] http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/09/05/lobbying-data-re... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/02/world/europe/germany-volk...

The German government doesn't control the prosecution. Especially not because it's not a federal investigation. Criminal matters are state matters, with very few exceptions. And to counter your next try: No, the government of Lower Saxony does not control the prosecution either.

government doesn't control the prosecution but government makes the laws and regulations. that's enough. And government in Germany is super cozy [1] [2] with car makers.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/business/energy-environme...

[2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-18/germany-w...

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#90

The astonishing thing for me is, that this is not at all new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defeat_device Yet everybody involved acts totally surprised. So good, that they do strong punishments, but maybe don't stop with VW, as others apparently do the same now (or working on it to put it silently under the carpet). Which makes me wonder if there is some backdoor agreement, that VW gets the public shame now, but reci…

This is a baseless conspiracy theory. Cheating is not par for the course, it was shocking to the emissions compliance community that VW had blatently lied and cheated.

The history of defeat devices is... complicated. Keep in mind the EPA chief is a political appointment. Their own interpretations of their own regulations can vary significantly from one administration to the next.

Post reply on HN