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Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

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Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#51
Hmm, I'm in the middle of this situation right now, and I want to write so much and yet prevent it turning into a blog post (if you want to talk, reply and I'll set up an alternative email - I think neither of us want to write our main HN/email accounts here).

Three quick pieces of context: I had a binge-drinking problem originally; that transitioned into a "4-6 330ml cans ~5 nights a week" - like you; and a cannabis problem.

I snapped one night when I got thoroughly smashed on a first meeting with someone (bad first impression). I got a shrink. I now have _two_ shrinks (one for diagnosed depression - Dysthymia - shrink's diagnosis, not mine, and one for general substance abuse). I've relapsed. I've missed my meds. It's hard. I keep restarting. I keep going. It's getting better. It's getting easier.

I came around to the realisation that if I stopped one problem, I relapsed on the other (stop drinking, more weed; vice-versa). I was going to have to stop both (it's freaking _hard_ after a 10-year habit). But I also had to acknowledge why I was drinking/smoking: social anxiety, stress, feeling like I "deserved" a reward for a long day, a little bit of something like "impostor syndrome" - but most often? Sheer, absolute, boredom when left alone for too long

It takes a whole-life effort for me: socialising in non-drinking environments. A better diet. More exercise (suck at that one). Medication for withdrawal. Meds for energy (stimulants) to keep me functioning. Sleep (incredibly important). My girlfriend (without whom I think I would be doomed). My managers at work (they know, and we have regular, personal-oriented catchups). My friends.

And I couldn't do any of this without the professional support, the support of my friends, and my work colleagues. The "first step is admitting you have a problem" annoys the hell out of me (so trite, so "easy"). But it's true. The second step is getting help. And it was scary at first (I'm admitting I can't do it myself, I'm a failure for not fixing it myself, etc.) But it was the right call.

A final note on the "high-functioning" part: apparently alcoholism is defined in things like the DSM as "when drinking becomes a problem - when it impacts work, family, or relationships". Mine didn't (much). But I wanted to a) stop it before it got to that point, and b) improve myself - like you said with the running, I am much better able to handle stress, to function in my development role, and to maintain relationships without only ever bonding while smashed.

That may/may not help :D But I appreciate what it's like to be at the "first stage" of acknowledging this. You wonder "do I have a problem?", "Is it _really_ that bad?". It's scary. But I would suggest that quite possibly, life can be significantly better by taking control of it. In ways I never would have thought of when I started my own journey.

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#52

Your situation is not as bad as many. It sounds like your problems mostly originate internally, rather than being the result of external pressure. It’s not like your friends are calling you up every day for a bottle; you’re drinking alone. So the only person you need to say “no” to is yourself (granted that might be harder than saying no to someone else). What works for me dealing with addictions / bad habits is to t…

I signed in just to upvote this! I hope someone can use it! Quiet and thankless internal discipline is highly rewarding, whereas the powers outside yourself (like excessive shopping, gambling, video entertainment, sex).... Well, they all make bank off of your diverted attention or indulgence. I admit I'm already being preachy, but I think what the basic abstract theme that "chatmasta" is disseminating is the same valuable theme that brought Tesla's genius to into the stratosphere -- albeit in his case with an early, rigourous start, and over the course of decades.

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#53

Alcoholism is a very serious but very treatable disorder. If you suspect you might be developing alcoholism there is no shame in seeking advice from a medical professional. It doesn't sound like you have a problem with your drinking but having a professional diagnose if this can turn into a problem is a good precaution if you suspect you might get sick. A common myth about alcoholism is that it is a personality trait…

"A common myth about alcoholism is that it is a personality trait, and people who are alcoholics will always be one." There are people who are biologically predisposed to alcoholism.

Indeed, there are people who biologically predisposed to alcoholism and other addiction disorders. It is believed that genetically some people are more likely to develop alcoholism than others. This is true.

However, this is no different than other disorders that some people have genetic disposition towards, but are still highly treatable, like diabetes or depression.

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#54
I know several high functioning alcoholics in the tech industry. I honestly don't have a clue how anybody does it.

None of them are on upward trajectories or even seem to care about work in a real sense. They care enough to get the work done, but not ... well, the simply care enough to do the work.

I grew up in a household with a drug addict, and I've helped several people through their problems with both drug and alcoholism. It's a very personal journey and it's harder to quit than you think. It isn't just the physical addiction, which is very real. It's the mental addiction and coming to grips with the fact that you are worth the effort and cost (both financial and personal) to stop.

Go to a meeting. (an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting for those who are not aware) It's surprising how easy it is to relate. It's surprising to see what the future potentially holds if you don't stop. Frankly, I probably would be an alcoholic if I hadn't attended meetings as a teenager. It's not so much that they scared me, it's that I had my eyes opened to the fact that I have a personality that lends itself easily to addiction, and that I enjoy alcohol a little too much.

I've never known an alcoholic who actually stopped for any length of time who did not go through AA. Some were forced by judges, some voluntarily, but all went through it.

Like I said, I went through it as a kid - not because of my own addiction, but because of someone else in my home. The recommendation was either alanon or naranon, but those weren't around me. Your behavior affects people around you. Maybe you think it doesn't, but it does.

Anyhow... go to a meeting. Listen, don't judge. Listen some more. Then speak and tell them how you are different and you'll all have a good laugh. Because you are the same and you all will know it.

Don't be ashamed. Don't think it's a small problem. That's like being a little bit pregnant. It's a problem. Take a step to fix it. Find a meeting. It's a disease. You don't need advice, you need help.

http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/find-local-aa

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#55
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half bottle of wine is unlikely to make him hit furniture.

"I'm drinking on average 5 evenings per week, between half and a full bottle of wine" would a full bottle of wine be enough? Doesn't it vary based on weight and alcohol tolerance?

I think that would depend on how much food you ate, how heavy you are and how long it took to finish bottle. I personally can drink full bottle over evening (say 4 hours) and be very far from that level of drunk. If I would have drunk it over 30 minutes on empty stomach, I would be quite a lot drunk.

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#56
post #4

Current UK drinking guidelines are that you drink no more than 14 units per week. 750 ml of wine at 12% = 9 units per night. 9 * 5 = 45 units per week. That's considerably more than the guidelines. With excess drinking we tend to talk about problem drinking (drinking a bit too much); harmful drinking (drinking enough to cause harm, and you're certainly doing that) and dependent drinking (drinking enough to have a phy…

Edit:

Here's some advice from the English NHS on how to reduce alcohol use:www.nhs.uk/Livewell/alcohol/Pages/Tipsoncuttingdown.aspx

the problem of talking about addiction is that you can be causing severe harm well before you have a physical dependency.

Harmful drinking is over 14 UK units per week.

A hospital based medically supervised withdrawal will happen at maybe 20 or 40 units per day.

Obviously there's a big gap in between where harm is being caused but you don't yet qualify for hospital based detox.

Help for problem drinking can be hard to access, and the evidence base for some of them are not great.

But for this kind of harmful drinking it's important to get help to cut back now, before it develops into dependent drinking.

Some things you can try: only buy wine on one day a week. Start by only buying two bottles. Ration those out. Have a calendar, and mark out when you're going to drink alcohol.

Switch to lower ABV (alcohol by volume) wine.

750ml of 8% ABV wine is 6 UK units.

750ml of 12.5% ABV wine is 9.3 units.

You can find very low alcohol wines too.

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#57
Hi friend,

I understand how you're feeling. I went through a similar process. And that's what I think you are in the middle of now: a process.

Let me eleborate:

______

I too work in tech, and was a highly functioning, but very heavy drinker. And I too drank approximately your amount of alcohol-intake for little over a decade.

One morning, a couple of weeks before turning 30, I saw the enormous pile of empty bottles that had been stacking up in my garage for the last month -again-, and a hard to identify combination of fear and shame took hold of me.

Interestingly, It was the fear of not being able of logically reasoning where the shame and fear -exactly- came from, that actually scared me the most at that particular moment.

I decided I did not want to ignore this unsettling feeling, for some earlier life-experiences taught me how pushed away emotions will only grow over time and come back harder and heavier in a time when you're even less capable of coping.

So I came up with this experiment for myself:

A. Try stop drinking for a month. (to have a different lifestyle to compare, and learn about your level of addiction)

B. Before the end of the month, try to have identified your fear. (to be able to conjure up a solution how to deal with this uncanny feeling)

And so my journey began. I quit drinking, and started exploring everything that might be frightening me about my drinking behaviour.

The not drinking part of my challenge was suprisingly easy, for I experienced close to none cravings for alcoholic beverages. This made me feel relieved and arrogantly proud, because I could tell myself: "there, you see, you're not an addict, and no reason to be scared or ashamed!"

But slowly there were some negative aspects revealing themselves as well: The first week my sleepingrhytm was often disturbed by the most horrific violent nightmares I had ever encountered.

Furthermore, the second week I felt so much fitter, but around week three, I felt extremely tired, I had even less energy than before.

And last but definitely not least, there was this slowly growing dull pain in my right flank... Yup, that's where your liver is located.

The fact that my body reacted in so many different -and for me- unexpected ways, was truely a wake up call: I might not be addicted to alcohol, but I'm most definitely poisoning myself, and the symptoms of this poisoning only present themselves when I am NOT drinking.

Now I had something concrete to be scared about: My wellbeing, my health, hack, maybe even my life!

So I started reading up on alcohol-related liver diseases, and other health-risks of longterm drinking. I read a great book about death, which taught me you can mostly choose your own cause of natural death with your lifestyle. [http://amzn.to/2jYbvvA] It made me wonder why I was drinking at all. And I still haven't found that answer.

Which only empowers my conclusion after a month: Drinking is just not worth it.

Two months in now, I feel so much fitter, my brain feels like it had cpu and memory upgrade. And the pain in my side has subsided. I'm happier, I smile more. I enjoy life more, and enjoy my body and outer world more consciously. And I'm actually looking forward to not drinking for as long as I choose. _______

So, I think you're at the beginning of a similar process. First being confronted with a hard to face truth, then testing aspects of life with and without alcohol. And at this very moment, you're gathering information, and looking for some answers.

You're on the right track, and hopefully my story can somehow convince you that your closer to an gratifying outcome of this process than you might think.

Kind regards,

Thom

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#58
post #6

5 nights a week half a bottle of wine isn't an alcoholic. It's drinking too much. If you're at a bottle of wine s night that's certainly too much. You've got a poor habit that's all. Just put a system in of deferring first drink, going to bed s bit earlier i.e. Before the last drink, and ensure you have a glass of water and a cup of tea between each glass. That'll reduce the amount you drink by s glass or two. You're…

Alcoholism isn't defined in terms of how much you drink, but how much control you have over your drinking. If OP thinks he has a problem with drinking too much then probably he does have a problem.

Currently we try to avoid "alcoholic" and use "dependant", because it has a clearer definition.

If someone has a tolerance for alcohol; is preoccupied by alcohol; seeks alcohol when they don't have it; and continues drinking even though they know it's causing harm then they are dependent on alcohol.

It's important to realise that a drinker can be doing severe harm even if they're not dependent on alcohol.

Current UK guidance for alcohol is no more than 14 units per week, and OP is drinking well over that.

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