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Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

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Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#21
Yep, happens to me too.

I can't say that I drink much, maybe once or twice a week, but sometimes I have work to do on the evenings and can definitely feel the difference on focus and motivation for what I'm doing if I've had a couple of glasses of brandy. Also I feel like I get pretty good ideas on that state (which I wouldn't classify as drunk) - Maybe relaxed.

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#22
The best advice we can provide is only what works for us. Your best bet is to find an experienced counselor who knows what to look for. As much as I wish I could help you, I can't: your reasons for drinking are yours alone, and your concern about your drinking is just as unique. If you need to stop, you can. You have it in you. You might not need to, you might just need some new alone-time habits. Alcoholism is different for each of us.

My father is an alcoholic. He stopped with the help of a drug called Disulfiram (Antabuse), and any time he feels like he may relapse, he starts taking it again. My brother seems dependent on alcohol, but doesn't binge drink like our father used to.

My partner believes she may be an alcoholic. Up until last year, she was drinking three 400ml cans of beer on average, five or six nights a week, sometimes that and almost a whole bottle of port. What made her quit drinking was the time she told one of her close friends that the friend and I should sleep together. Months later, then she tried to kiss one of her (female and straight) work colleagues. Her effort required to stop was significant, partly because she was raised by a habitual alcoholic mother who though nothing of forcing a beer into her hand.

Personally, I am not an alcoholic. My poison is escapism - video games, movies, even music. I'm stuck in those worlds, to the point of not sleeping until after 2am some days. I crawl into a game - say, Ghostbusters, Assassin's Creed Black Flag, or RimWorld - for maybe 12 or 15 hours a day sometimes, and then realise the whole day has gone by. Just today, I sent five hours playing RimWorld.

In my younger years, I ended up blackout drunk several times a month on and off for a few years. Being honest, which is easy with the anonymity of the interwebs, I often used it so that person I was attracted to would just find somebody else and make things less complicated for me. I have symptoms of autism insofar as I can't read body language or social situations. It's unfortunate that I compounded my problem (loneliness) by driving people away with alcohol. I barely touch the stuff now - I actually can't recall the last time I had a drink. Might be last year, I think.

You already have what you need, what you want now is some help to find it. Good luck. I hope things work out for the best.

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#23
My father in law was the same until he was diagnosed with liver cancer three years ago. I never really knew him before then because he was always drunk.

By high functioning you mean you sit in the corner getting drunk every evening whilst ignoring your wife and kids? Fighting with them on a regular basis because you're sozzled?

Since then hasn't touched a drop and I've got a father in law. My children have got a grandpa.

He deeply regrets the time he missed with his kids, but luckily has been able to spend a lot of time with his grandchildren.

I understand where it comes from - kids are hard work and you need a coping mechanism to survive the first couple of years. Yours is alcohol, mine is sweet food (so I'm too fat), others smoke.... maybe we should try collecting stamps instead? :)

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#25
post #15
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcoholism isn't defined in terms of how much you drink, but how much control you have over your drinking. If OP thinks he has a problem with drinking too much then probably he does have a problem.

It's possible but I have lived with an alcoholic and, from my experience, I'd say two things to this. One - voluntarily admitting he has a problem is a major clue that he isn't an alcoholic. Two - half to one bottle of wine wouldn't touch the sides with my ex who would easily do that amount before breakfast without anyone even knowing.

What makes me react to your comment is that it has the potential to be damaging to people that are coming to terms with denial of their addiction.

> voluntarily admitting he has a problem is a major clue that he isn't an alcoholic.

Someone voluntarily admitting he has an addiction problem is the first step for him to fix this problem. Always. Ever.

Being alcoholic is having an addiction to alcohol. Quantity only matters in the damage done. I can drink shitloads of alcohol myself but I'm not alcoholic because I couldn't care less when I don't (I know, because I'm addicted to nicotine, and boy is that fucked up, even though I don't smoke much it's such a battle to quit). Someone who drinks a single glass every single day but can't stop doing it is alcoholic. Quantity and behaviour (whether it is physically or psychologically induced) are completely orthogonal.

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#26
post #6

5 nights a week half a bottle of wine isn't an alcoholic. It's drinking too much. If you're at a bottle of wine s night that's certainly too much. You've got a poor habit that's all. Just put a system in of deferring first drink, going to bed s bit earlier i.e. Before the last drink, and ensure you have a glass of water and a cup of tea between each glass. That'll reduce the amount you drink by s glass or two. You're…

Alcoholism isn't defined in terms of how much you drink, but how much control you have over your drinking. If OP thinks he has a problem with drinking too much then probably he does have a problem.

OP was able to run an experiment, running when drinking or not drinking for a period.

Half to a full bottle isn't even excessive quantity, it's more the frequency that makes it 'a lot'.

OP sounds in perfect control to me. Perhaps use the running as motivation to cut back a bit - aim for doing a particular race that's a bit of a stretch.

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#27
post #20

You are not an alcoholic in the psycho sense but more like you need to "drink" or "consume" something to keep going. This is relevant in most cultures. For example, in the middle east where Alcohol is taboo there is Shisha: http://wrpm.ca/wrpm/store/images/products/narjila-b.jpg Unlike a cigarette, you need to sit down for the full period to consume a Shisha. More like 1-2 hours break. People need a break. Westerns g…

One point of clarification. One of my favorite things about running is spending that time socializing. I just slow down my pace and chat away. It's one of my most favorite activities.

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#28
post #25
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible but I have lived with an alcoholic and, from my experience, I'd say two things to this. One - voluntarily admitting he has a problem is a major clue that he isn't an alcoholic. Two - half to one bottle of wine wouldn't touch the sides with my ex who would easily do that amount before breakfast without anyone even knowing.

What makes me react to your comment is that it has the potential to be damaging to people that are coming to terms with denial of their addiction. > voluntarily admitting he has a problem is a major clue that he isn't an alcoholic. Someone voluntarily admitting he has an addiction problem is the first step for him to fix this problem. Always. Ever. Being alcoholic is having an addiction to alcohol. Quantity only matt…

OP had the self-control to stop drinking for a period to assess what impact it wae having on running though.

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#29
This is just my anecdote, I don't know how generalisable my experiences are. But in case this is useful:

I used to drink about this much, but I'm not sure I was that high functioning. I finally realised that alcohol was having a significant effect on my mood and motivation levels, even in relatively small quantities. Whilst I probably wasn't physiologically addicted, drinking had certainly become a vicious cycle.

I am cautious of using the term alcoholic, because often that implies a particular treatment (AA) which would have seemed too daunting, I would have had philosophical difficulties with, and would have denied me the pleasure I now get from occasional, moderate alcohol consumption.

There are some signs of negative introspection in your post. For me the first step was simply to become aware of the link between my alcohol consumption and my mood/behaviour. I realised I was doing much more negative introspection in the 48+ hours after drinking (even small amounts) than at other times. As an effect it is less obvious than drunkenness or a hangover, but for me it turns out to be just as predictable. Experimenting with this obviously required me to go without alcohol for a few days at a time. Being aware of the association then allowed me to take my negative thoughts less seriously and break the cycle ("Oh hang on, didn't I drink last night? That probably explains why I'm thinking this way - maybe I won't use booze to unwind this evening...")

It was a gradual process rather than a panacea, because it took time for the better decisions I started to make to filter through to my living situation, my work etc.

Re: Ask HN: High functioning alcoholism – anyone?

#30
You didn't really mention the context of your drinking.

For example, I've gone through periods in my younger life where I was working on tough projects with tight deadlines where there was a strong sense of camaraderie on the team - it was us against the world, pulling together to make the deadlines etc. Pretty much every night there would always be someone looking to go for drinks, and inevitably a good-sized group would be at the bar each night. What started as "one or two beers" typically ended up as rowdy drinking sessions until the small-hours before stumbling back home for 4 or 5 hours sleep before doing it all again the next day.

And you know what? The drinking stopped when I stopped working on those projects, but even now - years and years later - if I meet up with some of my old colleagues from those projects we always end up drinking fairly heavily.

tl;dr - are you drinking because of the people you're spending time with? Are you being being encouraged/pressured/expected (implicitly or explicitly) to drink by those you know?

Try some alternatives to spend the time - personally I have found that going for a good run helps to bring your brain down to a nice baseline state where nagging stress/concerns/wants/angers can be more easily controlled as I guess our lizard brains kick-in and concentrate on the running. TV/Movies/Games/Programming are too easy to both sit there and mindlessly eat/drunk/smoke at the sametime, while allowing your mind to wander back to the bad things.

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