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The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

americanaffairsjournal.org

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Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#51

Post by jraines »

PoliteTwig wrote: post #50

I find it interesting that the author only considers America from the top down - from the perspectives of institutions (Stanford, Goldman Sachs, Costco) and slogans (American Dream, All people deserve to live healthy lives). Part of me wonders if that’s due to America's own marketing, or due to his upbringing in a more totalitarian government, but for most Americans these perspectives are just as foreign. At dinner t…

This is a good point, but there's an awful lot of post-hoc Just World fallacy wrapped up in those same statements of faith. The really spurious ones - like 9/11 or Katrina being divine punishment - get media coverage but there're more bland ones that are actually more harmful; like disease or disaster being all part of God's plan. It's all good for living a life where you have to cope with what you can't directly control, but not so good when it comes to supporting policy that aims to take action on healthcare, climate change, etc. I'm not saying this to support any specific existing policy proposal, just that when/if the "right" one comes it's unlikely to undergo a rational debate.

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#52

Post by kunimu »

wolf550e wrote: post #47
kunimu wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communism is not a 'utopia' in the sense that everyone is happy all the time. It aims simply to do away with certain problems, just as public health services don't do away with every problem in your life. Your insinuation that I or any other Communist thinks this way is a strange one, though not unheard of. >you should educate youself better by consuming mass media. Is this not precisely the opposite of mass media? M…

'ordu answered as a person who has lived under communism. By "mass media" 'ordu meant "pravda". 'ordu is 100% correct about the communism as it was practiced in the 20th century. You are a theoretical marxist who has never seen what communism is like in practice. You would just say about every attempt to build communism that failed (which is all of them) that it was not real communism.

I don't deny that he or she may be correct about how Communism was practiced. In fact, Marcuse doesn't deny this either and describes the Soviet model as just as much of an issue in terms of rationality and consumption as Western capitalism. However, while Marcuse is a pessimist I consider myself an optimist, along with Zizek and Alain Badiou and Negri on the Communist Idea in general.

I don't think the errors of the 20th century's Communsit movements should be repeated, and it's our job to look for what these problems were and how to effect qualitative rather than merely quantitative change in them. I'm generally a skeptic of Marxism-Leninism and the idea of an elite group of educators to teach the masses.

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#53

Post by aalleavitch »

vostok wrote: post #10
hollerith wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also relevant is that fact that the article contains that statement, "I am the child of modest workers".

I wouldn't blame the author for this. I have a similar background in many ways. It took me a long time and a good deal of luck to realize that I am not the child of modest workers.

I agree, these judgements can only ever be made relative to one's own perspective. It's important not to take at face value someone else's notion of "modest worker", and even more important not to take your own notion at face value either.

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#54

Post by addicted »

Exo_Tartarus wrote: post #49

I'm not exactly sure what the point of the article is or what the author is trying to say. It's pretty much an abbreviated biography bookended by some attempts at philosophizing. It is interesting to hear how much easier the author found his British curriculum than his Chinese. I was also amused by how he mocked his Stanford MBA curriculum, and how the career office people were dismissive of his passion to make money…

"Smart hard working people succeed much more often than they don't."

A smart hard working person today might be a hard working computer scientist.

Their skills would be absolutely worthless even a few centuries ago. Their skills would be absolutely worthless even today depending on where they are born and to the parents they are born.

I'm not convinced "smart and hard working" are not post hoc descriptors themselves.

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#55

Post by zcase »

"Rather, the increase in inflation was due to things like tax increases, exchange rate fluctuations, oil price moves, etc."

It seems to me that tax cutting could lead to increased consumption and therefore a reduction in GDP slack and upward pressure on prices (inflation). Why is it that tax increases would lead to inflation?

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#56

Post by addicted »

bousaid wrote: post #38
thedevil wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* luck has more to do with results than we think * "focus on the process, which we can control, rather than the result" This is also well explained by Scott Adams: "Goals are for losers... try systems that improve your odds of success."

He more so explained his story, which was essentially: “I studied hard, got into a good school, and got a great job,” rather than explaining how he focuses on the process. The only example of “process” was his discovery during his internship that he _should_ focus on process.

But the story you're describing isn't accurate. His story is more like "I studied hard, did not do well, as a result my parents sent me to a good school in a different country, and got a great job".

If he had done better than he did in his Chinese High School, his parents may not have sent him to the UK, in which case he may not have been as successful. So it still aligns with the idea of the story that we really discount the value of luck in our successes.

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#57

Post by asdffdsa »

isoskeles wrote: post #35

> So I bought a heart rate monitor and checked my resting heart rate. Right around 78. And when the professor said to me in class “Puzhong, I can see that story brought up some emotions in you,” I rolled up my sleeve and checked my heart rate. It was about 77. And so I said, “nope, no emotion.” The experiment seemed to confirm my prior belief: my heart rate hardly moved, even when I was criticized, though it did jump…

Well from the beginning, the author only claims to offer "my candid observations" and not verifiable statements that are true or false. In fact, the whole article is clouded with ambiguity, probably because he doesn't want to come off as arrogant even though he secretly is, so he dials back on definite judgments.

I saw it as more of an expression of irony, that it was unexpected to learn the ideals of the "American Dream" in communist China, and essentially unlearn them while actually living in America. The whole "learned" rather than "taught" was the way he arrived independently at his personal beliefs contrary to what he was forced to learn in school or college.

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#58

Post by walshemj »

rdtsc wrote: post #5

> My parents by then had reached the conclusion that I was not going anywhere promising in China and were ready to send me abroad for high school. Maybe the title should be "The Western Elite from a Chinese Elite Perspective". Surely sending kids to school to UK as plan B is not in the average Chinese family's abilities. Doesn't mean we should discount the article or its ideas but it's useful to keep the author's bac…

From what I hear its now plan A to send your kids to British public and American private Schools as well as for the Russian elites.

Its what I have been told happens in my home towns Public schools - one of Barack Obamas roomies at Harvard came from one of them.

As suggested a in the UK Public School is what an American would call a private one ie one where rich people send there kids

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#59

Post by seanmcdirmid »

roberthluo wrote: post #7
rdtsc wrote: post #5

> My parents by then had reached the conclusion that I was not going anywhere promising in China and were ready to send me abroad for high school. Maybe the title should be "The Western Elite from a Chinese Elite Perspective". Surely sending kids to school to UK as plan B is not in the average Chinese family's abilities. Doesn't mean we should discount the article or its ideas but it's useful to keep the author's bac…

I agree with your statement, but if you turn around that logic, it is meaningless. Will you read about a blue collar worker's view on Chinese society? Probably not, since they are unlikely to have experienced it. Only Western elites will have been likely to experience Chinese society. Obviously someone who will be published in a magazine is elite. I am willing to wager than all the other writers are 'elites' in some…

I am the child of modest workers (my dad didn’t even have a bachelor degree) and have even experienced bankruptcy as a pre teen. I’m definitely not a western elite by background, but was able to experience Chinese society. Heck, there is a whole stereotype, not completely unjustified, of western losers coming to China to make a long term living as rockstar English teachers.

Re: The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective

#60

Post by walshemj »

vostok wrote: post #10
hollerith wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also relevant is that fact that the article contains that statement, "I am the child of modest workers".

I wouldn't blame the author for this. I have a similar background in many ways. It took me a long time and a good deal of luck to realize that I am not the child of modest workers.

That's true certainly in my teens I wouldn't have thought that though I do come from a middle class back ground as would those went to public school instead of a comprehensive.

I suppose it started to dawn on me when mum commented that if we had stayed in Birmingham they would have used my Grandfather (a headmaster) to try and pull strings to get me into Kings Edwards, BTW this is "the" King Edwards (JRR Tolkien's alma mata) that takes turn with the Oratory for the top school in the country.

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