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A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

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Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#121
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. To this unfashionable middle-aged guy, that sounds too complicated. I buy local produce simply because it often tastes better. And, I can afford to pay 50% more for better taste. I guess you could spin it to describe it as a lifestyle choice - my boring, middle-aged lifestyle. Like, my ‘I buy costco toilet paper’ lifestyle. That seems like a stretch. Or, maybe not.

If you think it will taste better, it will... (taste is based on more than your tongue).

It’s not psychosomatic- fresh vegetables taste much better. A salad that was picked the morning of is much different.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#122
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't buy a lifestyle from them, I buy fucking good milk from animals that are loved like family, and I'm proud to be helping them make a living doing something that is good for everyone(including the cows). It's not a lifestyle, it's just supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future. The things you say here seem like you are ABSOLUTELY buying a lifestyle here. ie. values for how animals should be tr…

I think you are wrong here as you are mistaking lifestyle with principles and ideals. Lifestyle is something very different than principles and ideals. Strange that you don't see the difference...

> Lifestyle is something very different than principles and ideals.

Are you leading a lifestyle that goes contrary to your ideals and principles? Isn't that a rather depressing and dishonest way to live? Why would you want to live like that?

Sure, not everybody can "afford" to live by the ideals/principles they ascribed to, depending on what these might be, but that's not a choice by those people, it's a choice made for them by their circumstances.

If they had an actual free choice, I'm pretty certain the vast majority of people would prefer a lifestyle matching their principles and ideals, instead of being stuck in a place where they have to throw their principles and ideals overboard just to get along.

> Strange that you don't see the difference.

Even stranger that you didn't try to explain that difference, which leaves the rest of us wondering what you are actually trying to allude to.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#123
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't fully understand what you're asking. Could you clarify? Are you suggesting they might go extinct? Or something else?

Not the above poster, but relevant SMBC: https://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3105

I can see how that mom in the comic would be a supporter of bullfighting - they tend to use similar justifications around the idea that, if it wasn't because the bull was raised and taken care (to ultimatelly be killed in the sports), it wouldn't have existed at all. I say that's BS, if you ask me.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#124
post #50
post #39

Some commentators here have difficulty of understanding how small farming can be profitable. It's relatively easy to explain. They are not selling just the product. Just like microbreweries, small farms sell for people who want more than just a beer or lettuce. They want to distinguish themselves and buy the feeling of authentic life and values. Consumer pays more for "small farm" even if the product is not any diffe…

I pay ten dollars a gallon for fresh non pasteurized milk from a local family that has seven cows. I don't buy a lifestyle from them, I buy fucking good milk from animals that are loved like family, and I'm proud to be helping them make a living doing something that is good for everyone(including the cows). It's not a lifestyle, it's just supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future.

How is it good for the cows? If you want cows that are "loved like family", then please explain how milking a cow is worse than a human woman getting (well, being forced into) a job as a milk producer? (Which goes far beyond "wet nursing" in terms of milk production)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_nurse#/media/File:Wet_Nurs...

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#125
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay ten dollars a gallon for fresh non pasteurized milk from a local family that has seven cows. I don't buy a lifestyle from them, I buy fucking good milk from animals that are loved like family, and I'm proud to be helping them make a living doing something that is good for everyone(including the cows). It's not a lifestyle, it's just supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future.

Amen, brother. I pay $5/gallon for a family farm to deliver milk to my house, and have been since 2006. People think that we're nuts for doing this, then they have the milk or the yogurt I make with it. It's helped my in my efforts to lose weight an improve my family's health. When you pay more for better product, whether it be milk or chicken or beef or vegetables, you eat less and utilize it more. Instead of seekin…

> When you pay more for better product, whether it be milk or chicken or beef or vegetables, you eat less and utilize it more.

That strategy works equally well for any product, not just "better" product.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#126
The TLDR; is that roughly 2,000 more people in the 25-34 age group started farming, which is a roughly 2% increase. Doesn't really sound like news to me, not yet at least. I'd like to interpret it as the younger generation getting back to their roots and more connected with real stuff (where food actually comes from, getting hands dirty, that sort of thing), but 2,000 people doesn't make a wave. I hope this number continues to rise and that as a society we become more _real_ in coming years rather than less. I.e., I think our society has lost something important the further we've gotten from our roots.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#127
post #94
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that legal? In Canada I'm not sure your allowed to sell unpasteurised milk.

It's not legal to sell it in a store but there's no problem buying directly from the source. At least that's how it worked in new Hampshire about 10 years ago.

Blanket statements like this are not helpful, every single jurisdiction has very different laws.

An state level overview is here: http://www.realrawmilkfacts.com/raw-milk-regulations but certain local jurisdictions within each state may further limit sales.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#128
post #39

Some commentators here have difficulty of understanding how small farming can be profitable. It's relatively easy to explain. They are not selling just the product. Just like microbreweries, small farms sell for people who want more than just a beer or lettuce. They want to distinguish themselves and buy the feeling of authentic life and values. Consumer pays more for "small farm" even if the product is not any diffe…

Most farmers are producing a commodity and there efficiency will win out every time over the small farmer.

But farm to table restaurants are willing to pay a premium for a steady local supply. Some people are willing to pay a premium for organic and non-GMO produce.

The small farmer is able to do something the larger farmer is unable or unwilling to do and receives a much higher price for it.

Small farms are exploding in Detroit. But they're having a problem getting title to the land they're farming.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-03-30/black-farmers-detroit...

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#129
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"PS: They might say be operating a stall at a locally grown market, but it's the stall not the farm that's generating income." If the stall sells products coming from the farm, the difference is lost on me. It's like saying "it's the Sales department that generate income, while Engineering is just a cost".

Put it this way - if you bought your apples from the grocery store and sold them in your stall, it would probably sell just as well. It's the experience of going to a market and buying from a stall that people like, NOT the produce.

If that were true, than how is it even possible for a farmer to get a spot at the stall? Why aren't they crowded out by grocery arbitragers?

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#130
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough Another thing I was going to point out is that farms smaller than 10 acres are actually the norm in many parts of the world. High intensity plots using walk-behind tractors and hand labour are common in Asia and in some parts of Europe. Much of Europe's vegetable production happens on 2-3 hectare properties. So I'm just objecting to you characterizing these small operations as "not farms" -- IMHO they're…

You're right I should preface this by limiting things to America. Making 7$ / day or 210$/month is a living wage in much of the world, but only adds up to ~2,500$/year. I am sure many of these farms provide a better standard of living than many of my ancestors had.

But it's not just incomes and labour costs. It's equipment prices, it's also land prices, it's land availability, and in North America subsidies for cash cropping favour that kind of farm. But also a huge part it is equipment costs and other costs that favour huge economies of scale here that is not necessarily the case in some parts of Europe, Asia, etc.

Look at what Chinese small farmers farm with -- small nimble walk behind tractors. Now try to get yourself one of these in North America. A BCS or Grillo walk behind fully equipped (rototiller/rotary plow, decent sized engine, cultivator attachment, etc.) ends up being at least $10,000 worth of an investment. Chinese farms are using similar equipment at a fraction of the price (just look on Ali Baba for example. But of course you can't import that without huge tariffs, shipping costs, and regulatory hurdles). On top of that they can get small equipment we can't get here: balers and combines that fit on small tractors or walk behinds and cost little. And they get access to markets as small growers that you can't get here.

Let's say I wanted to get into hazelnut production here. Or buckwheat. Something unorthodox like that that is not soy or corn. I'd be on the hook to not only grow the crop and harvest it and etc. there'd be no market that would take my small amount of crop and pay me for it and process it. To make it worth my while I'd need to grow hundreds of acres and get my own processing equipment and become a large agri corp. And so assume a huge amount of risk.

In places that have vibrant agrarian economies (most of NA does not) and high populations and a diversity of things grown there are more options for processing, etc. A place like Burgundy for example has a huge amount of small wine growers and makers and they form cooperatives and work together to process and market their grapes among a large number of businesses. But the model in North America is far more capital intensive.

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