Earlier quoted context omitted.
I talk to workers here in Canada the starting salaries and benefits are about average, definitely not 'highest in the sector' or any such nonsense though maybe in Europe they are in order to attract employees. Here they are expected to do 10-12hr overtime shifts every day, and work as hard as possible without breaks to make bonuses which are inconsistent, and because there's no union representation harassment galore…
“Wire service”?
Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday
281–290 of 339 posts
Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday
#282Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday
#283Happy to hear workers are standing up for themselves. The anti-union FUD campaign in the US has contributed significantly to the erosion of middle class wages over the past 50 years (check out Thomas Piketty's work if you're curious about this).
> The anti-union FUD campaign in the US has contributed significantly to the erosion of middle class wages It's way more complicated than that, and it can't simply be dismissed as a "FUD campaign". Union members are actually disproportionately likely to support things like right-to-work laws, which unions dislike because it (more or less) means workers aren't obligated to be members if they choose not to. Similarly,…
Let’s see some references. Most of that drop off is packing Union shops down south or overseas.
Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
How about instead of that, we let the people of South Carolina decide for themselves whether they want a union or not. The people of South Carolina seem to be quite happy with the current situation.
Let's see what you think when those jobs move outside the US.
[deleted]
Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
Instead of doing that I am just going to oppose all unions everywhere and try and prevent them from getting any power at all. Why? Because as soon as they get a foothold, it is done. Over. Can't get rid of them. There are literally rules where they can fire you for trying to end the union. If it weren't for attitudes like yours, I wouldn't be opposing unions. But your attitude DOES exist, so my only option is all out…
You are missing the point of unions. They aren't here for software engineers making couple hundred grand a year. They are here so that we don't have people losing limbs at work because the company was too cheap to do safety properly. You aren't interested in the service, fine. But I'm not sure why you feel like you need to cry about unions when you aren't their target group anyway?
> You aren't interested in the service, fine.
Not if unions get a foothold in my industry, then it won't be "fine". If that happens then they will be able to implement rules and regulations that force me to join them.
And yes, there ARE movements to get the tech industry unionized (they aren't very popular, Fortunately).
No thanks. I'm a not going to let my industry be ruined like that. I'd rather stop all of that in its tracks by making unions powerless nation wide.
They can't enter my industry and force me to join if they are powerless EVERYWHERE.
Also, if it is seriously "fine" for people who don't want their "services", then how about we implement right to work laws everywhere?
Shouldn't it be "fine" for everyone to not join them if they don't want to?
Fortunately for me, though, unions are continueing to become less powerful. So fortunately, less and less of them will be able to force people to join in the future.
Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I'm not going to say that democracy is infallible - in fact, I'm usually the first to point out the exact opposite. But "they don't know what's best for them the way I do" is a pretty dangerous line of reasoning to start heading down. I guess it's a good thing I never said any of the words you both put in my mouth and "quoted". Not once did I say I know what's best for them. Not once did I say they couldn't make dec…
Your words were dismissive of union members whose opinions differ than your own (they're less educated and missing the bigger picture, incapable of evaluating anti-union FUD on their own). Don't be disingenuous, "they don't know what's best for them the way I do" is a very fair representation of your words. Maybe you do? If you're going to take that position, own it.
> Don't be disingenuous
"My interpretation is objective reality, but your interpretation is dumb". How about don't be an asshole, man?
Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
This really isn't true and I really wish this myth would stop. Sure, if you go into the financial sector or find a startup where they don't know their arse from their elbow about software workers, you can dupe them into giving you more money. But 55k in London is a good wage for a software developer and you're definitely not looking at that if you're mid-level and working for a regular company. Source: I've lived and…
Care to explain how 55k GBP (60k EUR) can be a good wage, when the average new grad software developer in Germany makes like 50k EUR? And the cost of living is what, half or less than what it is in London?
Less taxes in the UK means higher take home from the 55k than you would have in germany. And you have to factor in that the 55 figure is probably from a time where GBP to EUR was still 1.4:1. Consider that 55k GBP might have been ~4.5k EUR/mo take home not too long ago vs ~2.5k EUR/mo take home from 50k EUR in germany. Still shitty, but not as shitty as it seems now.
EDIT: Also, using current exchange rates, the cost of living in one of the larger cities (Berlin, Munich, etc) in germany isnt that much lower compared to London anymore.
Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday
#288> The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical insurance or money to pay for training programs. Not a criticism of either Amazon or the unions but I would really appreciate it if news sources would verify these claims one way or another. Obviously as a wire service, that may not be Reuters' job but whether A…
Regardless, volume of work and general conditions might not align with pay. In this instance, it sounds to me that Amazon is expecting to push very high / recond volumes but not adjust compensation to align with that.
Long to short, there are reasons to strike beyond just pay.
Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday
#289Happy to hear workers are standing up for themselves. The anti-union FUD campaign in the US has contributed significantly to the erosion of middle class wages over the past 50 years (check out Thomas Piketty's work if you're curious about this).
And that as in turn led to the current "political climate." Inconic that the union busting party now have a leader they can't control and could also lead to the party imploding.
A classic case of be careful what you wish for.
Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This pattern isn't as simple to dismiss as "anti-union FUD", especially since it's seen among people who are already union members in closed shops. You act as though anti-union FUD can't affect members. That's kind of ridiculous... if it didn't affect MEMBERS as well as non-members, what would be the point? If I'm a less-educated union member who has no concept of what life was like before unions, and constantly hea…
> You act as though anti-union FUD can't affect members. That's kind of ridiculous... if it didn't affect MEMBERS as well as non-members, what would be the point? If I'm a less-educated union member who has no concept of what life was like before unions, and constantly hear that unions just take my money while providing no benefit, I'm probably likely to be swayed. What's the union going to do? Tell me about how 50 y…
If we're going to be so open-minded about not knowing what's best for a worker, recognizing that they have their own agency and so forth, then while we're at it, why don't we also admit that we don't know what they're thinking, or why they supported or opposed this or that? Meaning we have no idea what information they based their decision on, or whether that information included disinformation or a FUD campaign.