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I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

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Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#251

In my experience, it's counterproductive to code more than 4-5 hours per day. At a certain point you start introducing bugs/inadvertent complexity whose negatives outweigh any feature contributions you're making. There's lots of research which bears this out. E.g., https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/why-working-more-than-4...

I've been working 3-4 hour days for years now, however the only reason I can do this is because I work for myself.

Are you hiring?

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#252
That's why I have avoided working for huge companies so far. The pros of working for big company (including the Government which for this purpose is the same) are the benefits are usually pretty good, and if you're going to do decent job you probably will have decent job security - unless somebody 5 levels up decides to close your whole subdivision, in which case you're out no matter what. The cons are you are not even close to where the decisions are made, have very little chance to influence anything substantial and can spend years perfecting formatting on TPS reports without even knowing whether somebody ever looks at them.

I would suggest people feeling the upsides of nice paycheck do not cover the downsides of being a corporate drone try to explore smaller company scene. Maybe not fresh-baked startups (too risky unless you have good cash cushion or so young that expanding your resume is worth it anyway) but ones that are already established but still did not develop to Facebook/Google sizes.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#253
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. My guess is that the popularity of these professions is that they are all relatively low-qualified ones suitable to people working while studying or "filling gaps" before getting a "good job" in IT. >Wouldn't the more apt comparison…

> My guess is that the popularity of these professions is that they are all relatively low-qualified ones suitable to people working while studying or "filling gaps" before getting a "good job" in IT. Yeah, I mean I don't doubt that's why they show up frequently. It's more like: In a discussion about attorney/physician burnout, I don't often see people say "well you think being an attorney is hard? Try construction..…

Well compensated, yes. As well compensated as software developers, no.

A median software developer makes $100k [1], a median electrician makes $52k [2] and a median plumber makes $51k [3]. Some of that disparity is because of software developers being more concentrated into high COL areas, but even comparing the same metropolitan areas there is still a large disparity. For the NYC metro area, the mean wages are $114k/$79k/$76k respectively, for Chicago $99k/$80k/$80k, for LA $107k/$65k/$58k, for Dallas $107k/$43k/$43k, for DC $114k/$58k/$55k, for Atlanta $104k/$48k/$47k.

[1] https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151132.htm

[2] https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472111.htm

[3] https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472152.htm

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a perfect example of the tone that people (men) effect when they want to mask their own emotional reaction to feeling attacked with a veneer of logicism or scientificity. Simply state that her claims are anecdotal, and without even addressing the core of the argument you've managed to make them sound _unreasonable_. At least to those amenable to that kind of passive aggressive ad hominem.

I did't read that comment as passive aggressive or sexist. Maybe my SJW-meter is miscalibrated.

Please don't respond to a provocative comment with still more flamebait. That's exactly the wrong direction to take a thread.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#255
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is women in top positions. That is why companies don't go crazy to hire women because they are not cheaper That is not why women earn 20% less than men. It is because men work longer hours over longer periods of time than women do.

If you work longer hours that is your problem. You are paid to work a fixed amount of hours and the salary is linked to it, it doesn't matter what gender you are. So sorry to tell you but you sound like the typical guy women don't want to work with (neither me).

This crosses into personal attack, which is not allowed here. Please don't do it again.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#256
post #16

I really struggle to find anything worth reacting to in this blog post. It sounds to me like the story of every individual worker in every economy. Most of what she says is entirely self-evident, except for the anecdotes about pay/equity, for which she presents zero evidence. Where is the substance? Why is this interesting? Every dad in the world knows that a hobby is different from work, and that turning your hobby…

> Most people have way more taxing jobs than IT. I've been in construction for 3 years, and that work is no joke. There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. Wouldn't the more apt comparison be something like law? Or medicine? Or has software development truly reached blue-coll…

There really aren't a lot of high paying jobs that are needed in quantities that software developers are. Take this data: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm sort by Employment per 1000 jobs and then look for jobs with median wages no less than 15% below the median wage for "Software Developers and Programmers". The only ones you will find with a higher employment numbers are "Engineers" (all engineering occupations combined just barely beat out software developers and programmers in number employed) and a variety of management and executive categories. Lawyers have a bit more than a third of the number of jobs; physicians and surgeons are less than a fifth.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#257

I read the article; I'm not sure this is so much a criticism of the industry as it is an examination of this developer's personal anecdotal experience. As developers, we lead a very charmed life that others sometimes aren't even born with the chance to intellectually compete for; the author neglects to address how lucky we are to be able to do this at all, let alone to then find employment in it. If it's not an indus…

This one hits hard. As a front end developer, when people ask what I do, I say "I make buttons". Red buttons, blue buttons, big buttons, small buttons. Any kind of button you can imagine. I spend my life making buttons light up on a colorful screen. And then people click on those buttons and I get paid an obscene amount of money for it. I'm not sure if this is how people are supposed to live. It's driving me mad. But…

This hit a nerve. I think I hate my life as a developer, but then I see this janitor, in our office, cleaning the floor and windows, cleaning and unblocking the toilets, etc., and is always greeting me with a smile.

Makes me wonder why I deserve to be living such s luxurious life, while this guy has to spend his days waking up probably around 5am, commuting for a hour just to clean somebody else’s shit just to earn 1/3 of what I do.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#258
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did't read that comment as passive aggressive or sexist. Maybe my SJW-meter is miscalibrated.

Please don't respond to a provocative comment with still more flamebait. That's exactly the wrong direction to take a thread.

Yes, he does kind of prove my point doesn't he...

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it significant that you are not making a comparison to other intellectually demanding professions . A short order cook's worklife is worse than software workers, therefore let us be grateful. (The other day I made the same remark to a co-worker as we passed the guard in the lobby. "We're lucky!") It is true. Software development is indeed the best /blue collar/ career out there. Software engineers need to loo…

Just because other people have it worse, doesn't necessarily mean you have to settle for something that causes you unhappiness/stress/burnout. Yes, we are absolutely lucky and privileged, but the industry isn't all rosy either and there are lots of frustrated, unhappy and burntout developers out there.

Yes, yes, and yes. (I think you missed the point.)

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#260
post #208

I feel the same as the author about software jobs. I love CS, coding, architecture, and UX design more than just about anything. I spend at least 60 hours coding most weeks, and mostly for the love of it. But I dearly hope that I never have to go to work at a company, any company, ever again. I've happily accepted a very minimal standard of living to help ensure that. There are a lot of top comments here already that…

"""Sorry, but ditch-digging is not universally a worse deal than a software job. I put in 4 years at Walmart, during which I cleaned a lot of shit and vomit off floors and walls, pushed carts through snow in the northeast winters, and physically exerted myself to exhaustion regularly. Yet I was never very unhappy. I never got anywhere close to the raw misery and near mental breakdowns I experienced in several of my developer jobs."""

So True, money is good in our industry, but sometimes the stress that comes with it is nowhere worth it. We spend our health earning money and once we are rich, spend our money trying to regain our health lol.

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