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To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

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Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#141

Post by wongarsu »

libertyEQ wrote: post #119
StavrosK wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copy the most successful country in the world? Who would want a great firewall?

Sorry to sound like a nationalist here (i'm not), but the US has 1/3rd the population of China yet still has the largest economy, and the goto reserve currency. China actually has an ownership stake in all of their IT companies. Contrary to a sibling comment, NN paves the way for the government to regulate what a private company can do with their IT assets, and therefore a great firewall situation.

>but the US has 1/3rd the population of China yet still has the largest economy

USA is first by Nominal GDP, but second by PPP GDP (or third if you count the EU). I wouldn't declare a definitive winner based on that. And it's better to leave population out of that, because per capita the US is far behind countries like Norway or Switzerland, and at only half the GDP of Luxembourg (both nominal and PPP).

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#142

Post by ivm »

bringtheaction wrote: post #43
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be clear on something. "The Internet" doesn't care how Americans go about ruining their economy by prioritizing certain network traffic. As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. If anything the FCC rejecting net neutrality may be a boon for investment in EU startups and might actually benefit the EU tech sector. So go right ahead and take a crap on yourself America. But let's be clear that the…

When the Americans successfully ruin NN for themselves they might inspire other countries to follow though.

Netherlands has a net neutrality law since 2012, Chile – since 2010.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#143

Post by voycey »

awgneo wrote: post #28
voycey wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://substratum.net/ << these are doing exactly that

Shill much? There are tons of projects like this doing the same thing and you've already plugged this once.

I posted it here as an off the cuff remark then decided it deserved a full comment?

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#144

Post by lukas099 »

caseymarquis wrote: post #107
qanjl wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most countries like to copy the most successful country on Earth. Countries with free and universal healthcare: 117. Countries with free (but not universal) healthcare: 39. Countries with universal (but not free) healthcare: 2. Countries who copied the USA in having neither free nor universal healthcare: 42. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_univers... Countries who voted in favour of the United N…

I live in the US, and agree with most of your point, but regarding military spending, a significant portion of that is due to occupation of foreign countries and external military bases. The US is basically the last country paying to maintain an empire.

Yes, and many countries would have to pay more for their own defense were the U.S. not building those bases and helping defend them.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#145

Post by curtisblaine »

pyvpx wrote: post #124
curtisblaine wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand you will still be put in the slow lane if you're a Dutch startup offering services to Americans. and the US market is not exactly small. It's a loss for the Internet as a whole, not only the USA.

the EU market isn't exactly small, either. it is smaller, but not small.

Which means you're going to be in the slow lane for roughly more than a half of your market.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#146

Post by aaronbrethorst »

ikurei wrote: post #39
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1: Try to convince the FCC to not vote to kill NN. Step 2: Call your members of Congress and tell them to enshrine NN into law. Step 3: Vote your Rep out next year if they refuse to do what you ask for. Step 4: Vote out the President in 2020 if he vetoes NN. Pretty straightforward, imho.

I don't see how that's straightforward, especially numbers 3 and 4. Are you gonna vote out the president just for NN? Even if you don't think the other guy is gonna be much different in that regard? Americans cast one single vote (in presidential elections) for one of two candidates, on a myriad of issues of every level of seriousness. Leaving aside the fight to convince a majority of americans, just deciding to vote…

Getting my elected officials to do stuff I want is hard. I guess I'll go build an autonomous vehicle instead.

Millions of people who are registered to vote simply didn't turn out last November because they thought their vote wouldn't matter, that the candidates would be about the same, or...who knows what else. If just a few tens of thousands of them happened to have voted for Clinton last November, we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now.

And for the record, I think the President should be voted out for a couple dozen things, one of which is NN.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#147

Post by aaronbrethorst »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #62
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1: Try to convince the FCC to not vote to kill NN. Step 2: Call your members of Congress and tell them to enshrine NN into law. Step 3: Vote your Rep out next year if they refuse to do what you ask for. Step 4: Vote out the President in 2020 if he vetoes NN. Pretty straightforward, imho.

If next year my choice of mai party reps to vote for boths support ending net neutrality, then what? Vote third party and hope a majority of my state has also turned politics into a one issue system?

It is unlikely that both candidates will be opposed to NN. NN is part of the Democratic Party platform agreed upon at the 2016 Democratic National Convention: page 9 of http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/papers_pdf/117717.pdf

However, there are a few Democrats who have voted against NN in the past, or have indicated that they do not support it.

From this vote in 2016: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2016/roll152.xml

You have:

Jim Costa (CA-16)

Scott Peters (CA-52)

Collin Peterson (MN-07)

Kyrsten Sinema (AZ-09)

Albio Sires (NJ-08)

If you live in their districts, call up their office and tell them that you want them to change their tune on NN. Go to their town halls and tell them there.

There are also four Democratic Senators who listed as being part of 'Team Cable' according to this: https://www.fightforthefuture.org/news/2017-10-04-democrats-...

Again, if you live in their states (MI, MO, MT, or WV) call them up and tell their staffers that you want them to change their mind on NN and tell them why. Go to their town halls and tell them there.

Bemoaning your elected officials' choices without ever trying to influence them will not change anything.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#148

Post by humanrebar »

jedharris wrote: post #140
humanrebar wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A monopoly is the market's way of saying an industry/service should be nationalized. The U.S. doesn't have a nationally run garbage service. Police departments aren't national. There is no national toll authority.

So yeah, publify not nationalize. But the argument is clear. Not going to resist the rationality of the market, after all. Wonder why there’s no standard term for “publify”? Let’s change that!

But there still is a market. Cities compete against each other and that keeps them honest. If a city neglects it's police force, it faces demographic consequences. And if citizens are hurt by poor policing, they have other cities to choose. These properties are not true to the same degree in national issues.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#149

Post by craftyguy »

libraryatnight wrote: post #47

the nihilism that's infected HN is so disheartening. we're so screwed if this is what the conversation looks like on a forum for technologist entrepreneurs. Everything from, "protests don't matter," to "eh, it's not my country." This place used to be interesting. "Hacker" news, not really. "Grumpy programmers by trade" news fits better.

When is the last time a protest stopped determined politicians/policy makers? Maybe the 1970s? These days, protests are a dime a dozen, and are only convincing to the protestors and no one else.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#150

Post by aaronbrethorst »

sundaeofshock wrote: post #84
int_19h wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason to raise stink now is to make it clear to any candidates for 2018 and 2020 elections that this is an issue to which they can pander for the sake of good PR and votes. That applies also (and, perhaps, especially) to the primaries.

This Congress has been trying to gut healthcare and is about to pass an extremely destructive and unpopular tax “reform” bill. It is obvious they don’t care about popular opinion or even their chances for re-election.

They care very deeply about reelection. In order to get reelected, they need money and to survive a primary.

They won't get money from their big $$$ donors if they don't pass the tax cut bill. They won't survive a primary if they're seen as being 'soft' on the ACA by the true believers in their party.

They don't have any idea how they're going to make it through the general election, but that's a fight for another day. They have other priorities first.

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