I’d love to teach high school math or physics (or hell, even programming) classes. I’ve looked into it a little, and the bottom line is that no school district is ever going to pay me even half what my employer will pay me to shine their latest shiny app. I think it might make a good retirement career for me some day though.
I don’t want to be a software developer anymore
241–250 of 321 posts
Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore
#242The realization that people I considered friends never really have been after that memo got to me too. They might like my presence, but I don't really count as a women should be to them and they never considered me good as they pretended to. Good thing I don't always get subtle social clues I guess. But the rest sounds like burnout. Old programmers I see around had all learned not to let companies burn them out.
You can be friends with someone without thinking they're the best developer you've ever met You can also believe that trying to have a 50-50 at Google means the bar has been lowered without believing that about specific individual developers. I know a girl working at Improbable and I went to college with her, I have no doubt that she got there on merit. If everyone takes every generalisation personally then we can't…
Of course I can be friend with someone who dont think I am the best developer he ever met.
If you think I cant be good developer through, because I am women and those dont get to be good developers, no, we cant be friends and never actually been friends. You have just smiled on me and pretended to be nice guy. You never respected me and never will respect me. And I was dumb for not getting it. Then again, I guess if I would get these things, I would not ended up in profession I don't belong to according to guys I considered friends before.
What I do and being good at what I do was always important to me. If I did not ended as programmer, other thing would have the same status. In a way, being lonely is better then finding out friends were never friends.
It also means I cant trust you anymore, because you have been deceiving me for long. Of course I will continue to be polite to you.
Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Most people have way more taxing jobs than IT. I've been in construction for 3 years, and that work is no joke. There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. Wouldn't the more apt comparison be something like law? Or medicine? Or has software development truly reached blue-coll…
>There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. My guess is that the popularity of these professions is that they are all relatively low-qualified ones suitable to people working while studying or "filling gaps" before getting a "good job" in IT. >Wouldn't the more apt comparison…
Software development is centered in a few global headquarters cities; the trades are as dispersed as the populations they serve.
I would expect wages to be drastically lower in the trades even if standards of living are much higher. The construction contractors in my hometown own houses and late-model trucks. My software engineering colleagues rent with roommates and ride the bus for hours each day.
Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore
#244The realization that people I considered friends never really have been after that memo got to me too. They might like my presence, but I don't really count as a women should be to them and they never considered me good as they pretended to. Good thing I don't always get subtle social clues I guess. But the rest sounds like burnout. Old programmers I see around had all learned not to let companies burn them out.
> "Old programmers I see around had all learned not to let companies burn them out." Great observation. Did you ever have any of those "old programmers" offer you any advice in this respect?
Yes. That was actually first advice I got from a guy on first real under pressure project I worked on. (He was more specific tho.) I followed his (specific) advice and it paid on even in short term.
Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like I said, maybe she knew her worth and just wanted to get her foot in the door. I never said she asked for a raise. She just found a better offer elsewhere, and probably would had stayed for the right counteroffer. I wouldn't want to work with a person who puts their own ideas about when it's appropriate to expect a raise over keeping bright people. She didn't waste anyone's time; unlike most, she was productive f…
Counteroffers are widely regarded as a terrible thing to offer -- it sets a precedent that anyone, at any time, can attempt to hold your company hostage for more money. Most organizations with much industry experience will pass on any sort of counteroffer. And it's likely that she _absolutely did_ waste people's time -- the company may have passed on other candidates to hire her and had to start over.
How are they holding the company hostage? You either agree to a salary or you don’t, and if you want to mitigate the risk of even having to discuss salary, you overpay. I realize from a mgmt perspective it sucks to lose someone you invested a decent chunk if change searching for, but it’s on you to mitigate that risk.
In some sense, they wasted their own time by not overpaying.
Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
This supposes you can afford to get a job elsewhere. Most people need a job now.
Having and enforcing personal boundaries will change your life. People will respect you for it too, not turn you away.
You will not respect yourself even when your wallet is empty.
That said, it is currently reasonably easy to switch the job in our area.
Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a developer and still a mailman in Canada in the freezing rain and snow because that indexed pension is just too good to give up, plus they let you do awesome things like bank all your overtime so you can take more days off. I had one month off paid this year in addition to my regular 5 weeks off. Before my shift these days I program for a university medical research lab, which isn't highly paid but it's satisfyi…
> I'm a developer and still a mailman in Canada.... Before my shift these days I program for a university medical research lab. So your mailman job is a full-time job and the programming job is part-time? Or is it the other way around? Or are both part-time? Asking because part-time jobs in software engineering are quite hard to come by, atleast in the US.
Check universities, because P/T developer work is in abundance here usually weekends or remote once you get to know the researchers you work with, showing up on odd weekends. These contracts pay less than industry but the education you receive working with post-doc's imho makes it worth it and it's still more than a livable wage. CompSci dept students don't often apply for whatever reasons, I suspect it's because they are chasing internships at big money corps.
Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. I always work for startup type companies and they end up getting acquired and the process changes from what worked great (enough to get acquired) to shackles and mud. I hold on as long as I can and move to another startup type company. Big companies suck the soul and passion out of you. You really have to be careful. Any passionate developer that wants to get out of development was most likely crushed by lar…
Looking at this paragraph: >Because it’s not really “passion” they are looking for, but people who are merely willing to endure long hours. They aren’t really looking for the person who spends a few hours on the weekend on an open-source project, they are looking for the person who comes home from work and spends all night on it. I feel that the author is describing a lot of startups or mid-sized companies. Personall…
For me, it isn't necessarily the long hours that do me in, it's the overburdening process that strips any creativity or problem solving out of the trade.
I don't mind working long hours as long as they don't expect me to. I'll do it because I want to finish something cool and useful I'm working on, and move to the next cool and useful thing I get to create.
Also, my perspective is from outside SV. I don't have any desire to work there.
Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore
#249In one of his essays, Paul Graham remarks that the startups at Ycombinator who fail have several traits in common, and one of those traits is that they don't listen. He meant they don't listen to him, but I would make it general -- these failed leaders often don't listen to their own teams. I've been surprised at how often I have an important insight about a business, and my clients/managers feel uncomfortable with m…
This sounds like a very one-sided perspective. Because while we devs might not want to admit it, incremental improvements in product quality don't have a huge business impact. There are 3 states of a product -- Not Working, Works OK, and AMAZING. Not working --> Works OK is the initial dev of a product, so you are likely already past that. Now, if your improvements don't move the product from OK to Amazing, or if you…
I'm not sure who are responding to, but you are not responding to me. If you re-read what I wrote, you'll see that I was speaking of cases where the leadership agreed that the status quo had failed.
Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm a developer and still a mailman in Canada.... Before my shift these days I program for a university medical research lab. So your mailman job is a full-time job and the programming job is part-time? Or is it the other way around? Or are both part-time? Asking because part-time jobs in software engineering are quite hard to come by, atleast in the US.
Check universities, because P/T developer work is in abundance here usually weekends or remote once you get to know the researchers you work with, showing up on odd weekends. These contracts pay less than industry but the education you receive working with post-doc's imho makes it worth it and it's still more than a livable wage. CompSci dept students don't often apply for whatever reasons, I suspect it's because the…
Yep, this is true. In fact the only software dev work I've been paid to do in 2 years has been part-time a uni in Manitoba working with a post-doc there. It's way more rewarding overall than anything I've been fired for doing in an office somewhere accounting for my story points.