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I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

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Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#221

Post by dentemple »

BenchRouter wrote: post #165
folknor wrote: post #16

I really struggle to find anything worth reacting to in this blog post. It sounds to me like the story of every individual worker in every economy. Most of what she says is entirely self-evident, except for the anecdotes about pay/equity, for which she presents zero evidence. Where is the substance? Why is this interesting? Every dad in the world knows that a hobby is different from work, and that turning your hobby…

> Most people have way more taxing jobs than IT. I've been in construction for 3 years, and that work is no joke. There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. Wouldn't the more apt comparison be something like law? Or medicine? Or has software development truly reached blue-coll…

>There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter.

You don't need a degree--or even any formal education at all--to become a software developer.

That's why it's often compared to blue-collar jobs.

For people like us, if we weren't developers, then blue-collar is our only other option.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#222

Post by fapjacks »

derwiki wrote: post #82
gjvc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Old programmers I see around had all learned not to let companies burn them out." Great observation. Did you ever have any of those "old programmers" offer you any advice in this respect?

Not sure if I’m considered an “old programmer”, but a few things I’ve learned: * don’t use work email on your smartphone unless it’s required * don’t take your work laptop home unless it’s required * have something else going on in your weekdays. For me it’s the gym/yoga, for my (programmer) wife it’s taking ceramics classes

Absolutely this. As I got older, I realized that I felt more relaxed and refreshed after a weekend when I put the computer down and went for a hike or out to the bar with friends, or to the local game store for some kind of games. Things I used to consider counterproductive. Having something else going on is important for putting things in context.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#223

Post by nickbauman »

If your job as a programmer is being measured by the hours you're putting in every day, you are experiencing a conflict of mission. I have a co-worker who never seems to be working yet he's one of the most productive people in the office. He works for 1 hour in the morning untangling a hairball in the code that creates 22 hours of productivity for the rest of the team. He's been programming since the 1980s. Stop this madness of applying 19th century industrial England's work "ethic" to the job of a programmer, please.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#224

Post by amyjess »

sjg007 wrote: post #178
ablomen wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha yes a lot of breweries have been started by IT people over here too. To be fair, brewing includes some science, a lot of self learning and creativity, so there is some overlap there. Not to mention the fact that until recently (over here at least) most beer festivals looked quite a bit like open source conventions, just with different stickers. And the "beer nerds" (including me) I know are just as in to beer as…

I think in craft beer their is definitely a taste race going on. In the beginning every American ipa tastes like Sierra Nevada.... now you get multiple styles and hoppiness. I’ve found myself unhappy with the maltiness of some craft beers now.

I'm glad that the obsession with IPAs has started to fade some.

The craft beer scene in Dallas has exploded recently, and somehow the local scene had ended up focusing on milk stouts. That's a wonderful thing IMO; I can't stand the taste of hops, and I detest IPAs, so I consider myself blessed to live in a city where the local craft beer scene cares mostly about creating something thick, dark, and sweet.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#225

Post by Terr_ »

jameskegel wrote: post #11

I read the article; I'm not sure this is so much a criticism of the industry as it is an examination of this developer's personal anecdotal experience. As developers, we lead a very charmed life that others sometimes aren't even born with the chance to intellectually compete for; the author neglects to address how lucky we are to be able to do this at all, let alone to then find employment in it. If it's not an indus…

This reminds me of an amusing post that is... Well, not exactly a rebuttal as much as a re-framing:

> Every friend I have with a job that involves picking up something heavier than a laptop more than twice a week eventually finds a way to slip something like this into conversation: "Bro, you don't work hard. I just worked a 4700-hour week digging a tunnel under Mordor with a screwdriver."

https://gizmodo.com/programming-sucks-why-a-job-in-coding-is...

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#226

Post by BenchRouter »

dentemple wrote: post #221
BenchRouter wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people have way more taxing jobs than IT. I've been in construction for 3 years, and that work is no joke. There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. Wouldn't the more apt comparison be something like law? Or medicine? Or has software development truly reached blue-coll…

>There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. You don't need a degree--or even any formal education at all--to become a software developer. That's why it's often compared to blue-collar jobs. For people like us, if we weren't developers, then blue-collar is our only other option…

Yeah, and I think that's the interesting divide to me: I did receive a formal education, and even a Master's, in CS.

Despite that, there's very little difference between myself and another developer who has no formal education at all.

I guess I always thought of myself as a white-collar worker because of that, and this whole discussion is making me re-evaluate that. Not that the distinction is super important obviously, or that I think of myself as "better than", but I always thought of my peers as attorneys and people in finance, not construction workers.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#227

Post by xupybd »

>That what James Damore said that really cut to the core was that a lot of us women in tech were only there because a bar was lowered to get us in to meet some quota.

I don't think that is what he was saying, he was saying lowering the bar is of limited utility if not that many women are choosing tech careers. Maybe addressing the reason that tech is not attractive to women is a better solution?

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#229

Post by BenchRouter »

jaclaz wrote: post #174
BenchRouter wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people have way more taxing jobs than IT. I've been in construction for 3 years, and that work is no joke. There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. Wouldn't the more apt comparison be something like law? Or medicine? Or has software development truly reached blue-coll…

>There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. My guess is that the popularity of these professions is that they are all relatively low-qualified ones suitable to people working while studying or "filling gaps" before getting a "good job" in IT. >Wouldn't the more apt comparison…

> My guess is that the popularity of these professions is that they are all relatively low-qualified ones suitable to people working while studying or "filling gaps" before getting a "good job" in IT.

Yeah, I mean I don't doubt that's why they show up frequently. It's more like: In a discussion about attorney/physician burnout, I don't often see people say "well you think being an attorney is hard? Try construction..."

The discussion in that case would be something more like, "if you don't like being an attorney go be an accountant" - something like that, if that makes any sense.

> It could be, but I doubt that there are many people that after having invested in an education in either law or medicine and actually had a suitable job in those professions left them to become a full-time programmer, particularly an employed full-time programmer.

I see what you're saying, but my point was more like: Shouldn't we be comparing software development to those professions? As in, "software development is incredibly easy compared to being an attorney"?

> Since every other guy here seems to be well in the hundred of thousands US$/year or more, I would say, if this is the case, "exceptionally well paid plumbers/electricians".

I thought that was becoming more and more common in those professions (electricians especially seem to be well compensated)?

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#230

Post by askafriend »

jameskegel wrote: post #11

I read the article; I'm not sure this is so much a criticism of the industry as it is an examination of this developer's personal anecdotal experience. As developers, we lead a very charmed life that others sometimes aren't even born with the chance to intellectually compete for; the author neglects to address how lucky we are to be able to do this at all, let alone to then find employment in it. If it's not an indus…

I think this piece needs to be taken with the context of the author’s work history which heavily colors her professional experience.

It’s easy to look up on LinkedIn. Once I saw it, her post made a ton more sense. I offer no value judgements as I know better than to do that (whether positive or negative, not interested in engaging).

But you can look for yourself.

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