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To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

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Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#131

Post by danarmak »

caseymarquis wrote: post #107
qanjl wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most countries like to copy the most successful country on Earth. Countries with free and universal healthcare: 117. Countries with free (but not universal) healthcare: 39. Countries with universal (but not free) healthcare: 2. Countries who copied the USA in having neither free nor universal healthcare: 42. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_univers... Countries who voted in favour of the United N…

I live in the US, and agree with most of your point, but regarding military spending, a significant portion of that is due to occupation of foreign countries and external military bases. The US is basically the last country paying to maintain an empire.

The historical norm is that a successful empire is very profitable. If you have to spend money maintaining it, you're doing it wrong.

In other words: the US is not an empire. It's something that needs a different term.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#132

Post by sporkologist »

tcbawo wrote: post #108
jrs235 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How can so many of those who are usually anti-regulatory "free market" extremists also be so strongly in favor of this regulation? Because in the US, network providers (at least the last mile providers; those charging end consumers) are local monopolies. Most people in the US have one legit high speed internet option, a few have two. There is little competition and the barriers to entry for new comers is very high (…

It would be wasteful to duplicate the last mile fifteen times. Are there any municipalities that create/manage this infrastructure themselves? Having local, public ownership of the lines and contracting out the maintenance seems like the most efficient option. It seems that most IT monopolies lobby hard against this.

Chattanooga's super-fast publicly owned internet

http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/20/technology/innovation/chatta...

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#133

Post by aeontech »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #40
tbabb wrote: post #4

No. To save the internet, we have to make the most gigantic stink the world has seen since the Trump election. The solution is not "give up and let this pass, and then quietly try to work around it." It's "make the people in power pay DEARLY for their transgressions."

Let's be clear on something. "The Internet" doesn't care how Americans go about ruining their economy by prioritizing certain network traffic. As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. If anything the FCC rejecting net neutrality may be a boon for investment in EU startups and might actually benefit the EU tech sector. So go right ahead and take a crap on yourself America. But let's be clear that the…

Your internet will not be affected for exactly as long as it takes local providers to see the proof of concept and financial benefits and lobby your government to pass similar regulation, their efforts now bolstered by the ability to point to the US as a “successful” forerunner.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#134

Post by luvbb »

jrs235 wrote: post #111
neom wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about they don't inspect any content, but I download the media player provided by my ISP and it doesn't contribute to my data cap, but netflix does?

I would think if they have data caps then they will have to determine how much data their own content consumes and count it against the data cap. Otherwise this is abusing their network monopoly to support and provide an unfair advantage to their content business.

In the United States there are often deals where certain services used on certain networks do not count against mobile data caps. For example, DirectTV Now app does not count against an AT&T datacap.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#135

Post by haliax »

This isn't a solution by any stretch but I am curious, what's the stop me using a VPN provider (or an EC2 tunnel, etc) and tunneling all my traffic to prevent slowdowns?

Yes, the ISP could throttle anything they don't recognize, but that seems incredibly risky, given that VPNs are used widely across enterprises in the US, and degrading people's work internet seems like a really terrible idea...

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#136

Post by HugoDaniel »

haliax wrote: post #135

This isn't a solution by any stretch but I am curious, what's the stop me using a VPN provider (or an EC2 tunnel, etc) and tunneling all my traffic to prevent slowdowns? Yes, the ISP could throttle anything they don't recognize, but that seems incredibly risky, given that VPNs are used widely across enterprises in the US, and degrading people's work internet seems like a really terrible idea...

That could work on the "slow" option. The thing is that they will make money by forcing you to pay for what you want to see (not by forcing you to pay in their "everything" package).

Say you buy their "netflix" package. Then you won't even be able to turn on your VPN because you will only be allowed to watch netflix.

Now here is the deal: this kind of business model they are forcing does not work on the current switching model of the internet (but does on the phone/tv), because you can circumvent it down on the stack. Either by setting up a fake netflix server and/or forcing the routing table on your own machine, or some other kind of weird tunneling/workaround with packets to a supposed netflix server. Net neutrality is a hoax.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#137

Post by DiThi »

libertyEQ wrote: post #121
DiThi wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's the plan in the USA... Without NN it's easier than with NN.

Are you sure your logic is sound here(?): The great firewall and net neutrality are both examples of the government regulating the internet. Edit: Just to be clear, I'm sure we all agree that our ISPs should offer neutral transmission of packets without deference to source/destination or protocol/port.

Both regulate the internet, but in complete opposite ways:

Net neutrality is the default state of computer networks (a packet is a packet), and protecting it forbids discrimination by source, destination or contents.

The great firewall discriminates by source, destination or contents.

One of the main arguments against net neutrality is disallowing offering different speed or latency depending on the type of service (VoIP, gaming, downloads), but that's false, because you can do that without looking at the source, destination or contents; you just have to compare them with other packets (as opposed to comparing them to a pre-made list).

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#138

Post by droidist2 »

HugoDaniel wrote: post #136
haliax wrote: post #135

This isn't a solution by any stretch but I am curious, what's the stop me using a VPN provider (or an EC2 tunnel, etc) and tunneling all my traffic to prevent slowdowns? Yes, the ISP could throttle anything they don't recognize, but that seems incredibly risky, given that VPNs are used widely across enterprises in the US, and degrading people's work internet seems like a really terrible idea...

That could work on the "slow" option. The thing is that they will make money by forcing you to pay for what you want to see (not by forcing you to pay in their "everything" package). Say you buy their "netflix" package. Then you won't even be able to turn on your VPN because you will only be allowed to watch netflix. Now here is the deal: this kind of business model they are forcing does not work on the current switc…

But doesn't the ISP know what the Netflix servers' IP addresses are? How could you fake a Netflix server?

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#139

Post by droidist2 »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #122
featherverse wrote: post #80

Rather than "build our own" we should take back what used to belongs to us in the first place. They say there's a shortage of qualified I.T. people. If you work for telecoms who support a non-neutral internet, then quit. Go on strike. Work only for companies who support Net Neutrality. Kill the enemy using free market capitalism.

> "take back what used to belongs to us in the first place" Could you elaborate about how we used to be the owners of the ISPs? Are you referring to the use of eminent domain laws to lay cable?

I think they mean the internet in general, built originally by the US government.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#140

Post by jedharris »

humanrebar wrote: post #130
wfo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time a monopoly arises, that is the market telling you the most efficient way to produce the good is with a single centrally planned organization, and that competition is not possible or effective. A monopoly is the market's way of saying an industry/service should be nationalized.

> A monopoly is the market's way of saying an industry/service should be nationalized. The U.S. doesn't have a nationally run garbage service. Police departments aren't national. There is no national toll authority.

So yeah, publify not nationalize. But the argument is clear. Not going to resist the rationality of the market, after all.

Wonder why there’s no standard term for “publify”? Let’s change that!

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