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Wikileaks Must Be Stopped

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Wikileaks Must Be Stopped

#61

Post by steveklabnik »

mr_eel wrote: post #38
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #3

I am struck by four things. 1) Wikileaks is really pissing people off. I don't mean the nicey, lets-go-protest-down-at-the-student-union kind of protest. I mean people who are not normally angry with anybody else in the world talking about throwing him in jail and/or killing him. Devil or Angel, that's a whole heap of pissing off he's accomplished. 2) Assange has more power than many 3-star generals, yet he's just so…

1) It's difficult to gauge the general sentiment, but as you say a lot of people have got het up. I see that as a good thing personally. 2) That's a good point. Wikileaks has the potential to leak material which is more damaging than it is beneficial. The question is if you think that risk is worthwhile. I do. 3) Anarchy encompasses a wide variety of political thought. You are being reductive. Besides, there is nothi…

> Besides, there is nothing to suggest Wikileaks is an anarchist organisation.

"Leaking is inherently an anti-authoritarian act. It's inherently an anarchist act." - Julian Assange

- http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/22/2933892.htm

(note, I don't think this is a bad thing)

Re: Wikileaks Must Be Stopped

#62

Post by mcantelon »

tptacek wrote: post #47
mcantelon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Here's what I'm wondering: when did it become fashionable to stick up for the Taliban? When there are two groups of killers involved in a conflict recognizing the killing of one group doesn't mean one is excusing the killing of the other group. If you are familiar with the history of the Taliban you are likely aware of the role the US played in their rise to power ( http://nyti.ms/ddOTcu ). The Taliban would likely…

I don't understand why it matters that the US helped bring the Taliban to power. Help me understand why our culpability in the rise of the Taliban doesn't make us more obligated to eradicate them. Please understand, I think that this article we're all commenting on is all the way at the crazytown other end of the spectrum on this issue. The notion that the US should be allowed to kidnap people in friendly countries a…

>Help me understand why our culpability in the rise of the Taliban doesn't make us more obligated to eradicate them.

If I could believe that eradicating the abuses of the Taliban is in some way part of the mission I might agree, but I fail to see any reason to believe that whatever regime the US installs post-Taliban will be any different.

Re: Wikileaks Must Be Stopped

#63

Post by rick888 »

gloob wrote: post #39
rick888 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm fine with that. Assange isn't killing people. 3-star generals are." Yes he is. The information he released in the latest round of "secrets" gave away informants to people that can (and will) kill them. If he gave information about locations of jews to the Nazis, would we say it was freedom of information? "Government can function with much less secrecy than it currently does. WL is serving a public need in chall…

Yes he is. The information he released in the latest round of "secrets" gave away informants to people that can (and will) kill them. The story I've heard is that Wikileaks attempted to contact the White House, so the two parties could go through the documents and remove references to informants. The White House declined the offer. Has any evidence emerged to suggest this is untrue? Wikileaks failed to remove actual…

"The story I've heard is that Wikileaks attempted to contact the White House, so the two parties could go through the documents and remove references to informants. The White House declined the offer. Has any evidence emerged to suggest this is untrue?"

Right, so like little children that aren't responsible, they released all of the names instead.

"See above."

see above

Re: Wikileaks Must Be Stopped

#64

Post by lionhearted »

mcantelon wrote: post #15
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #3

I am struck by four things. 1) Wikileaks is really pissing people off. I don't mean the nicey, lets-go-protest-down-at-the-student-union kind of protest. I mean people who are not normally angry with anybody else in the world talking about throwing him in jail and/or killing him. Devil or Angel, that's a whole heap of pissing off he's accomplished. 2) Assange has more power than many 3-star generals, yet he's just so…

>1) Wikileaks is really pissing people off This is because what they're doing is effective. Ineffective things don't piss people off and trigger military disinfo campaigns. The author of the WPO blog article is an AEI member, a player in the neocon agenda: not some random pundit. >2) Assange has more power than many 3-star generals I'm fine with that. Assange isn't killing people. 3-star generals are. >3) Anarchy is…

> I'll take a self-promoter over a murderer any day.

How is crap like this getting upvoted? New Guys, here at Hacker News we vote up and down based on intelligent, civil, primarily unemotional comments. Calling out "neocons" and randomly throwing "murderer" around is not what we vote up here. Please think, a lot of us are ex-Reddit and we don't want Hacker News to become Reddit, or else we'd be at Reddit.

Re: Wikileaks Must Be Stopped

#65

Post by rick888 »

cageface wrote: post #35
rick888 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm fine with that. Assange isn't killing people. 3-star generals are." Yes he is. The information he released in the latest round of "secrets" gave away informants to people that can (and will) kill them. If he gave information about locations of jews to the Nazis, would we say it was freedom of information? "Government can function with much less secrecy than it currently does. WL is serving a public need in chall…

If he gave information about locations of jews to the Nazis, would we say it was freedom of information? Godwin's law so soon in this thread? Not helpful.

"Godwin's law so soon in this thread? Not helpful."

Don't know your history? not helpful.

Re: Wikileaks Must Be Stopped

#66

Post by tptacek »

rbanffy wrote: post #53
tptacek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you call those prosecuting the US/NATO side of the conflict in Afghanistan "murderers", you run the risk of implicitly taking the side of US/NATO's adversaries, who in this case are the Taliban. Here's what I'm wondering: when did it become fashionable to stick up for the Taliban? The Taliban aren't the Sandinistas. The Taliban aren't the North Vietnamese Army. They aren't even Hezbollah. It is conceivable --- e…

> When you call those prosecuting the US/NATO side of the conflict in Afghanistan "murderers", you run the risk of implicitly taking the side of US/NATO's adversaries, who in this case are the Taliban. Nice strawman. Calling the folks who recklessly fire on civilians murderers may be a bit exaggerated. Human error happens and human error when the human is on the trigger of a 30 mm cannon is usually disastrous, but au…

People who recklessly fire on civilians are murderers and should be tried as such. Commanders who issue orders that make ignore forseeable events like that should be held criminally responsible.

Corruption should be eliminated.

Corrupt local replacements for the Taliban should be thwarted.

Incompetancy is bad and should be rectified.

Now, all those things being true, help me understand how it can be OK to arm the Taliban with lists of probable informants?

Re: Wikileaks Must Be Stopped

#67

Post by gloob »

I find it bizarre that so many people suddenly care so much about the lives of a couple hundred civilians in Afghanistan. Between the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians have been killed, and nary a tear was shed by a reporter anywhere, but suddenly God knows how many people are out for this fellow's blood.

The world's a funny place.

Re: Wikileaks Must Be Stopped

#68

Post by starkfist »

lionhearted wrote: post #64
mcantelon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1) Wikileaks is really pissing people off This is because what they're doing is effective. Ineffective things don't piss people off and trigger military disinfo campaigns. The author of the WPO blog article is an AEI member, a player in the neocon agenda: not some random pundit. >2) Assange has more power than many 3-star generals I'm fine with that. Assange isn't killing people. 3-star generals are. >3) Anarchy is…

> I'll take a self-promoter over a murderer any day. How is crap like this getting upvoted? New Guys, here at Hacker News we vote up and down based on intelligent, civil, primarily unemotional comments. Calling out "neocons" and randomly throwing "murderer" around is not what we vote up here. Please think, a lot of us are ex-Reddit and we don't want Hacker News to become Reddit, or else we'd be at Reddit.

too late

Re: Wikileaks Must Be Stopped

#69

Post by die_sekte »

baddox wrote: post #37

I laughed when the author cited a US law claiming the United States' ability (specifically the FBI) to legally violate international law . That's like me citing my own personal law that says I may legally violate state laws and burglarize any house I want to.

There's a US law about invading an international court to free US citizens.

There are a bunch of reasons why the US is hated by quite a few people, most of which boil down to: (a) many US presidents are war criminals (b) the US is a very big "western" nation that likes to start wars (c) the US doesn't play nice with international standards and organizations.

Re: Wikileaks Must Be Stopped

#70

Post by amanfredi »

electromagnetic wrote: post #14

The thing that concerns me is how panicked governments seem to be over the release of documents and their reaction is insane (IE seemingly trying to block out all free speech and free right to publication, etc) that I can't help but wonder what they're not wanting to be leaked. Someone without secrets doesn't worry about things being leaked. What secrets do these governments have that are huge to the point that they…

You don't need privacy if you have nothing to hide, eh?
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