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I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

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Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#201

Post by vlehto »

danieka wrote: post #122

The author may not have intended it as such, but what I read is a excellent argument for a shorter work week. She writes that if she won the lottery she would still program, but fewer hours. And I wonder how her work related injuries would look if she had worked say six or five hours per day. I'm guessing a shorter work week would have been cheaper for both her and her employer and that she would have been more effic…

To me the optimum would be two part time jobs. Two days a week doing job A, other two days doing B and three days off. Eggs in different baskets.

For companies it's often said that you should never rely on single customer. But it makes sense for companies to force employees to rely on single customer simply by buying all of their excess time.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#202

Post by UncleEntity »

Clubber wrote: post #112
johnnymonster wrote: post #9

It's hard for me to read articles like this. If you don't like working at a high paying tech job, please quit and dig trenches, drag brush, or pick lettuce for minimum wage and no benefits. Then come tell me how much it sucks to write fragments of code while sitting in your air conditioned office.

It still sucks if you are passionate about it. Coding was a hell of a lot funner 20 years ago, before the dark times, before the MBAs.

...before the grammar police.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#203

Post by pascalxus »

the author has clearly been taken advantage of by her work as many people have been both in the software industry and outside of it. The biggest problem, is our need for money. If we only needed 1/3 as much money to live, then you wouldn't need to work nearly as much. You could work for 5 years and then take several years off. And, if everyone else did the same, the labor supply would shrink to amount that forces employers to treat labor with more respect. At that point, I don't think they'll mind you have a 3 year gap, as long as your skills are up to date.

But, reducing your need for money to 1/3 is hard, partly due to our financial decisions: but this part can be changed. It's pretty easy to cut spending on the frivolous parts. The hardest part is taxes. In the US, on average, 1/3 of every dollar you earn gets taken by the Gov and it's much much more than that if you're in an expensive area like the bay area. If you find this surprising, take a good look at gov spend of GDP.

Housing cost is probably the next biggest area that's hard to reduce, mainly due to laws that prevent land supply and zoning from increasing and lots of other political factors.

Anyways, I think it's not reasonable to expect everyone's work to be fun 100% of the time. We just have to expect that some of the work will be interesting and some of it won't and reduce the total amount of work done in a lifetime accordingly.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#204

Post by ryanisnan »

hackermailman wrote: post #193
jib wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shittier jobs I've had than a desk job: 5-6 hours a day biking in -15C snow with wet feet (Mailman). 8 hours a day moving chips one by one in and out of an EPROM writer because it was cheaper to have me do that than pay the extra 2c to have them preprogrammed. The chips were 25c without programming and 27c with. (Ericson subcontractor). And I am privileged as hell, coming from Sweden with a good education and a famil…

I'm a developer and still a mailman in Canada in the freezing rain and snow because that indexed pension is just too good to give up, plus they let you do awesome things like bank all your overtime so you can take more days off. I had one month off paid this year in addition to my regular 5 weeks off. Before my shift these days I program for a university medical research lab, which isn't highly paid but it's satisfyi…

Do I know you?

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#205

Post by dejv »

derwiki wrote: post #82
gjvc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Old programmers I see around had all learned not to let companies burn them out." Great observation. Did you ever have any of those "old programmers" offer you any advice in this respect?

Not sure if I’m considered an “old programmer”, but a few things I’ve learned: * don’t use work email on your smartphone unless it’s required * don’t take your work laptop home unless it’s required * have something else going on in your weekdays. For me it’s the gym/yoga, for my (programmer) wife it’s taking ceramics classes

Another "old programmer" here:

* trust your instinct and join company with non toxic environment

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#206

Post by BeetleB »

tboyd47 wrote: post #80
retSava wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author says she didn't bring it up since she was afraid it would negatively impact her career. While I can certainly understand this is a real fear that is grounded in reality, I also feel that she has a responsibility to lift the issue internally to get appropriate furniture, tools (eg ergonomic keyboard), and treatment.

You can only expect to be taken seriously for requests like that if you have been diagnosed with a medical condition. By then, you've already experienced significant pain, so the damage has been done. Ergonomics for developers is difficult. Damage sets in so slowly that you don't really notice it until it's too late.

>You can only expect to be taken seriously for requests like that if you have been diagnosed with a medical condition

If their default setup is bad (crappy chairs, etc), and they have the attitude you mentioned, do not work there.

For me, it would be a condition of employment to get me a proper chair and desk.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#207

Post by brooklyntribe »

A heads up? Don't take a cabinet making workshop with an instructor passionate about what you can do with a plank of Birds Eye Maple, a router and a piece of sandpaper.

You may never look at another Javascript framework again. So DON'T take that class. You may do something crazy like quit your day job and make wooden bowls all day. And have way too much fun.

You don't want to have way too much fun. And don't get me started on glassblowing!

You can do pretty well on Etsy, and code on the side. And keep that grad degree in CompSci as Plan B. :-)

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#208

Post by psyc »

I feel the same as the author about software jobs. I love CS, coding, architecture, and UX design more than just about anything. I spend at least 60 hours coding most weeks, and mostly for the love of it. But I dearly hope that I never have to go to work at a company, any company, ever again. I've happily accepted a very minimal standard of living to help ensure that.

There are a lot of top comments here already that sound like "keep quiet and stop being ungrateful." Well, being grateful for what you have is good for your mental health in general, but it isn't the answer to everything. Otherwise, why have any preferences?

Obviously, I feel this way because of my experiences in the workplace, and you feel differently because of yours. Sorry, but ditch-digging is not universally a worse deal than a software job. I put in 4 years at Walmart, during which I cleaned a lot of shit and vomit off floors and walls, pushed carts through snow in the northeast winters, and physically exerted myself to exhaustion regularly. Yet I was never very unhappy. I never got anywhere close to the raw misery and near mental breakdowns I experienced in several of my developer jobs.

I would have expected more of us to understand all too well why dev jobs can be truly terrible, stressful, unrewarding, and dis-empowering. If you feel lucky to be in this line of work, maybe you are lucky, but not every software engineer is lucky to have their job.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#209

Post by justboxing »

claudiulodro wrote: post #51
jameskegel wrote: post #11

I read the article; I'm not sure this is so much a criticism of the industry as it is an examination of this developer's personal anecdotal experience. As developers, we lead a very charmed life that others sometimes aren't even born with the chance to intellectually compete for; the author neglects to address how lucky we are to be able to do this at all, let alone to then find employment in it. If it's not an indus…

I was a furniture upholsterer. It was super interesting, good exercise, and really required a lot of analytic thinking. I loved upholstery. However, I wasn't able to support a wife and kid on an upholsterer's paycheck. An employee upholsterer starts at $10/hour for a junior up to a high-range of $20/hr for 10+ years experience. Now I'm a software developer making multiples higher more income. I like it OK and I can p…

Interesting you mentioned your story about going from upholsterer to software engineer. It looks like the OP of the medium post is going the other way around...

> The good news is I basically already did win the lottery. I built up savings working as a developer which allowed me to quit.

> .... but now gives me a landing pad where I can take some time to really do what I love. Ample time with people I care about.

> In January I’m starting a leatherwork vocational program.

So maybe a year from now, she'll experience what you experienced, i.e. low wages / income and decide to come back to the 'cushy' life

and follow up with another blog post titled "I just not want to be a leather worker any more."

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#210

Post by jorgemf »

wyclif wrote: post #116
jorgemf wrote: post #59

First of all. It is called Software engineering for a reason. Engineering means to handle big problems in a way they can be solved by a company in an efficient way. Second, women earn 20% less in average, yes, but for the same position the earn the same as men. The problem is women in top positions. That is why companies don't go crazy to hire women because they are not cheaper (otherwise the company would be in a bi…

The problem is women in top positions. That is why companies don't go crazy to hire women because they are not cheaper That is not why women earn 20% less than men. It is because men work longer hours over longer periods of time than women do.

If you work longer hours that is your problem. You are paid to work a fixed amount of hours and the salary is linked to it, it doesn't matter what gender you are. So sorry to tell you but you sound like the typical guy women don't want to work with (neither me).
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