I don’t want to be a software developer anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#111

Post by internetman55 » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 4:15 PM UTC

jameskegel wrote: post #20

jaymzcampbell wrote: post #4

I feel like we as an industry can sometimes forget just how good we have it. Many of my friends do not work in tech, they are low paid, they have stressful jobs with little autonomy, they are not challenged at all and they feel little personal accomplishment in their day today. I appreciate the author alludes to this but having seen friends recently job hunting (outside of tech) I am reminded that even on the worst d…

> Until basic income comes along I think we have to just get over it. Most jobs aren't going to provide you with fun for 8 hours a day. I feel like the older I get the more I understand that a job is a way for me to trade time for money, I don't have to (or should expect to) like it. This is something I think is a fault of my generation (née 1985), when we started to create this fairytail narrative of participation t…

To be honest, I'm not sure if this kind of thinking is conducive to getting good work done. If someone is smart, self-motivated, and so on, you can mostly count on them to work hard on important stuff given a bit of direction. The "work sucks, do your job" attitude is, in my experience, one way to get workers to check out, stop caring, and start maneuvering politically so that they can do the minimum amount of work necessary to not get fired. If you add to this that the threat of firing means little to a lot of younger folks with ability and a network, since they have very few financial liabilities and can easily find another entry-level job anyway, you risk easily creating a bunch of unmanageable low-effort workers. The worst part is that managers seem to kick into "just do it" mode when things are most precarious for the organization.

This seems to be common in other industries with liquid job markets and little financial benefit to staying in one company over another, ex young people in low-end retail jobs who live at home

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#112

Post by Clubber » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 4:16 PM UTC

johnnymonster wrote: post #9

It's hard for me to read articles like this. If you don't like working at a high paying tech job, please quit and dig trenches, drag brush, or pick lettuce for minimum wage and no benefits. Then come tell me how much it sucks to write fragments of code while sitting in your air conditioned office.

It still sucks if you are passionate about it. Coding was a hell of a lot funner 20 years ago, before the dark times, before the MBAs.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#113

Post by Clubber » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 4:18 PM UTC

dahart wrote: post #108

> That savings was originally for a downpayment for a house, but now gives me a landing pad where I can take some time to really do what I love. Saving up and taking two years to do my own thing made me appreciate the old saying "time is money" like nothing else ever has, I literally bought time to do what I want with that money. It ran out before I figured out how to turn it into a sustainable business, but I still…

I recently took a 4 month sabbatical and money is certainly freedom. I appreciate it more.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#114

Post by tboyd47 » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 4:18 PM UTC

golemotron wrote: post #106

tboyd47 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not too much to ask for equitable pay or a non-hazardous environment. Gratitude for something doesn't necessitate being blind to ways that thing could be improved.

However we do live in a world where we have to prioritize because we each have finite time. The social issues of tech work will never be as dire as issues of poverty, child welfare or health care. Our privilege blinds us to this.

Just acknowledging a problem exists takes practically zero time.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#115

Post by Clubber » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 4:20 PM UTC

johnwheeler wrote: post #41

I’ve held jobs where I was able to work on only greenfield projects with minimal oversight and the ability to put in 3-4 hour days if I wanted to, and I’ve held jobs like the blog post author’s, working on hellish enterprise CMSes. I can say the former is incomparably better and makes you grow into a stronger, more fulfilled engineer. I think as long as I could support myself financially and keep living somewhat comf…

I agree. I always work for startup type companies and they end up getting acquired and the process changes from what worked great (enough to get acquired) to shackles and mud. I hold on as long as I can and move to another startup type company.

Big companies suck the soul and passion out of you. You really have to be careful. Any passionate developer that wants to get out of development was most likely crushed by large company process.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#116

Post by wyclif » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 4:21 PM UTC

jorgemf wrote: post #59

First of all. It is called Software engineering for a reason. Engineering means to handle big problems in a way they can be solved by a company in an efficient way. Second, women earn 20% less in average, yes, but for the same position the earn the same as men. The problem is women in top positions. That is why companies don't go crazy to hire women because they are not cheaper (otherwise the company would be in a bi…

The problem is women in top positions. That is why companies don't go crazy to hire women because they are not cheaper

That is not why women earn 20% less than men. It is because men work longer hours over longer periods of time than women do.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#117

Post by internetman55 » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 4:21 PM UTC

indubitable wrote: post #46

jaymzcampbell wrote: post #4

I feel like we as an industry can sometimes forget just how good we have it. Many of my friends do not work in tech, they are low paid, they have stressful jobs with little autonomy, they are not challenged at all and they feel little personal accomplishment in their day today. I appreciate the author alludes to this but having seen friends recently job hunting (outside of tech) I am reminded that even on the worst d…

There's another side of this story as well though. The consequence of having more intellectually challenging work to solve is that by the end of the day you're brain fried. For most people the only way you're really going to get anywhere in life is by staking it out on your own at some point. If you're not earning enough money to save away a sufficient stash, that means you need to be working your day job while also…

I have this problem as well. I would see people who sit in meetings and send emails do very low-effort work all day, and think they were working hard. When a former manager started cracking down on developers walking outside to cool down and think or spending any idle time, I started putting the similar amount of thought and mental effort into my job, to get 8 full hours of 'work' done without burning out. During this period, I got basically nothing that wasn't super routine done. Any minor hinge in development would take days or weeks to work through instead of a few hours. Said manager was perplexed and began complaining constantly about how the pace of development was slowing down and that milestones were being missed.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#118

Post by Clubber » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 4:22 PM UTC

dep_b wrote: post #12

It's kind of weird how people in the US seem to struggle with work life balance. I'm constantly working for US companies remote from outside the US and I can work +/-40 hours per week without any problem.

Remoting makes it much more tolerable. Driving 30 minutes to an hour every day to get to some office full of noise and interruptions for reasons really starts shitty, makes the day shitty and ends the day shitty.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#119

Post by dahart » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 4:23 PM UTC

> As a developer I’ve often had trouble figuring out if a job would be Snow Crashy or not, and been seduced by promises of engaging work only to find myself ferreting out bugs on some enterprise CMS.

Some jobs are more engaging and some are less. In my experience, all dev jobs involve some time spent doing things that I don't consider fun, but the company needs done. Employers do usually sell the work as interesting and engaging for the person with the right skills.

Companies do tend to value the people that willingly take on the ugly stuff and get it done. Sometimes (but not always) those people are paid more. I think there are ways to make it more engaging, by studying the value of the less fun work and working to fix it. This might mean developing interests in and spending time doing some non-coding skills. And certainly there are also some jobs that don't have much to redeem them.

Does anyone have advice for identifying what portion of the work will be engaging during hiring interviews?

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#120

Post by Consultant32452 » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 4:23 PM UTC

tboyd47 wrote: post #102

Consultant32452 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>quit after 3 weeks at my company because they were underpaying her and wouldn't give her a raise. Why would she have accepted an offer she felt was too low?

Why wouldn't she? Maybe she wanted to get her foot in the door. The point I'm trying to make is that the company needed her more than she needed them.

>Why wouldn't she?

Because it's unethical to agree to work for a rate you're not actually willing to work for. She wasted a lot of people's time and resources to bring her on board for those three weeks.

>The point I'm trying to make is that the company needed her more than she needed them.

I wouldn't want to work with a person who accepts an offer and then THREE WEEKS later starts demanding raises, no matter what their skill level.