Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

gamasutra.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 346 posts

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#261

Post by JabavuAdams »

flexie wrote: post #72
ajnin wrote: post #28

Quitting your job with only 4 month worth of savings, with a new mortgage, to enter an industry known for its oversaturation, extreme competition, and high luck element for indies ? That's insane. Maybe I'm just risk-adverse. That said, I think he actually succeeded, despite appearances. Managing to release a working game in 3 month, that actually got sales, is a feat in itself. The game will keep trickling sales, if…

It's not that I disagree, especially with the opinion that the gaming industry is over-saturated and that a lot depends on luck in that industry. But I'd say that 4 months worth of savings is in the better end when starting a new business. Most people who do startups or who otherwise become entrepreneurs have much less than that. And I think having too much of a cushion can lull you into a false sense of "doing somet…

Four months is nothing. Especially for the games industry -- you're not going to get outside funding in any realistic scenario. Also people who commit to making an indie game in a short time-frame rarely do service work to fund it.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#262

Post by dkersten »

Klover wrote: post #159
dkersten wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you need to make sure the niche is large enough to support your financial needs and that they want what you're making. Did he talk to his target audience or otherwise pre-qualify his niche? Also, did he promote his game or just rely on Steam? There is so much on Steam these days, what did he do to stand out?

>There is so much on Steam these days, what did he do to stand out? Write a cautionary tale and get recognition even in auxiliary communities.

That's true, good point.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#263

Post by foobarian »

emodendroket wrote: post #221
hennsen wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And about that: > But if having 6 or 12 months worth of savings is a requirement, then you can rule out just about everyone except rich kids and upper middle class teenagers. If you’re a good Software developer and have no idea how to save some 20-30k bucks in 2-3 years for your plan of your own business you’re doing something wrong. Like you are bad at contract negotiations, no good contact network in the industry t…

The post says the guy lives in Eastern Europe.

That'a big deal. EE = most likely no property tax, which makes a vast difference in financial planning compared to the west. Basically if you're lucky to have a house or apt. you're set for good.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#264

Post by hub2017 »

JabavuAdams wrote: post #259
cylinder wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem like a business story really, it seems like an artist / craftsman wanted to practice his craft and ran into commercial realities. It's a starving artist situation. There wasn't any market analysis, financial analysis, etc upfront. He wanted to make a game, and he did, so he should be commended for that. It wasn't really a business venture.

Almost all indie game developers think like this, though.

"Imma be a rapper" of programming.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#265

Post by JabavuAdams »

flexie wrote: post #72
ajnin wrote: post #28

Quitting your job with only 4 month worth of savings, with a new mortgage, to enter an industry known for its oversaturation, extreme competition, and high luck element for indies ? That's insane. Maybe I'm just risk-adverse. That said, I think he actually succeeded, despite appearances. Managing to release a working game in 3 month, that actually got sales, is a feat in itself. The game will keep trickling sales, if…

It's not that I disagree, especially with the opinion that the gaming industry is over-saturated and that a lot depends on luck in that industry. But I'd say that 4 months worth of savings is in the better end when starting a new business. Most people who do startups or who otherwise become entrepreneurs have much less than that. And I think having too much of a cushion can lull you into a false sense of "doing somet…

> But if having 6 or 12 months worth of savings is a requirement, then you can rule out just about everyone except rich kids and upper middle class teenagers.

Disagree, but I suppose it's highly dependant on location and salary.

The last time I worked for a game company, I made $95k/yr, which equated to $5002/mo after taxes and deductions. This is in Toronto, Canada.

An expensive 1-bedroom luxury apartment steps from the subway was $2100/mo. My share of daycare cost for the kids was another $900 or so. Heating/electricity $100. Totally unoptimized mobile phone and fiber internet, another $220. Car insurance and home insurance, another $300. Gasoline $100. So, $1280 left over for food and random stuff. Let's say I bothered with any kind of cost-control: I could probably save $900 / mo. That's 2 mos salary in savings every year. After 10 years, that's 20 months in savings, without compounding or other windfalls. In fact, I'm now in a 2BR apartment that's $400 cheaper /mo.

EDIT> Forgot Long-term disability insurance, Life insurance, and medications. Call that another $500, but about $300 of that is meds. If you're young and healthy, or have full health insurance, hopefully you're paying less for medication.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#266

Post by rainbowmverse »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #190
brutus1213 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice link. I like Joel's writing. Haven't kept track of it in a while. The last para really rubbed me the wrong way ("sleeping with boss"). Most likely it was in jest but we need to have a zero tolerance to this kind of crap now (men and women).

Wait... you're offended by a non-gendered joke about the fact that interpersonal relationships in an office environment can impact the enforcement of contracts against you? Do you just look for things to be offended by, or is there a particular reason?

You sound way more offended than the person you replied to. All I see up there is a harmless, well-intentioned critique with a perfectly civil tone. Meanwhile, you sound angry.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#267

Post by JabavuAdams »

First of all, congratulations! You shipped, and in four months. This is already an impressive accomplishment.

There are certainly 4-500 people who would buy your game if they knew about it. The main problem you face as an indie (aside from completing your game, which you've done) is that no one knows about you!

So, part of development needs to be marketing. Months and months of marketing! You really don't want to just release a game and see what happens.

I would say -- don't look at this as a failure. You've shipped, and you've learned. You're very employable. If your worst case is to use this as a portfolio piece for your next job, then that's not too bad. And, what you've learned, once the pain and disappointment wears off, will make you that much more fearsome in your next business attempt.

Flip it -- you're a winner!

EDIT> Dude, you made money while you were sleeping. Think about that! That's true capitalism. Once you taste the forbidden fruit of product (vs. service) income, there's no going back!

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#268

Post by JabavuAdams »

cousin_it wrote: post #49

His sense of what games are "cool" wasn't in tune with the public. That's the cardinal sin. Pixel art dungeon crawlers aren't cool. It's as if he was a musician and decided to release a glam metal album today. Low budget, poor marketing, uncooperative bureaucracy - nah dude, none of that matters, you're just too in love with glam metal and people aren't buying glam metal.

Disagree. It's a niche, and the market size is bigger than 700 people. It's just that the 700+ people who would buy his game don't know about him yet. So ... marketing.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#269

Post by NikolaeVarius »

alchemism wrote: post #249
cheschire wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And twice your salary in a retirement fund by the age of 30, and three times your salary in retirement by 35. Basically quit your day job only if your side hustle is already making more money per month (not per hour) because odds are even making more per month is still going to result in not being able to survive much past 57. Side note, how many 57 year old indie game devs are there?

How does the average American put tens of thousands of dollars into a retirement account within 5 years at a point in life where there is a morgage and/or children? That does not seem like conventional wisdom.

Don't do the mortgage and children.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#270

Post by forsakenkraken »

BacioiuC wrote: post #232

Hi everyone OP here. Just to clarify some confusion/mentions from the comments. I'm from Romania. I used to make around 1.5k euros monthly from my last job + a small side gig. An average salary here is between 300-600 euros. My mortgage is around 200 euros. I was in the extremely lucky position to be the tech field and do so well pay-wise. When I took the decision to quit my job and finish my game the following state…

I bought a copy today. As I suspect did a lot of others. Hope it helps some. I look forward to playing the game this evening.
Post reply on HN