I don’t want to be a software developer anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#61

Post by fpisfun » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 3:42 PM UTC

jameskegel wrote: post #20

jaymzcampbell wrote: post #4

I feel like we as an industry can sometimes forget just how good we have it. Many of my friends do not work in tech, they are low paid, they have stressful jobs with little autonomy, they are not challenged at all and they feel little personal accomplishment in their day today. I appreciate the author alludes to this but having seen friends recently job hunting (outside of tech) I am reminded that even on the worst d…

> Until basic income comes along I think we have to just get over it. Most jobs aren't going to provide you with fun for 8 hours a day. I feel like the older I get the more I understand that a job is a way for me to trade time for money, I don't have to (or should expect to) like it. This is something I think is a fault of my generation (née 1985), when we started to create this fairytail narrative of participation t…

There's still a huge divide in terms of talent, the vast majority of programming jobs outside silicon valley seem to be working on legacy code that is terribly architected (think Java apps written in a procedural style, etc) whereas top companies are making full use of more modern approaches and tools. It will be a very long time things even out and programming jobs are similar across the board.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#62

Post by ablomen » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 3:42 PM UTC

fiftyacorn wrote: post #44

ablomen wrote: post #17

Coming from a country with cushy laws on the side of employees etc (the Netherlands), and as a male, I can say that I can really identify with the opening paragraphs of this piece. When I started as all round IT guy 10 years ago it felt like a dream, getting payed for doing what I was doing anyway. And the first 4 years of turning in to a web developer was fun and challenging. But after a while the shine wears off an…

The number of ex-dev's i know who have started breweries is pretty high. Its like a career progression - software developer 10 years -> start micro-brewery

Haha yes a lot of breweries have been started by IT people over here too. To be fair, brewing includes some science, a lot of self learning and creativity, so there is some overlap there.

Not to mention the fact that until recently (over here at least) most beer festivals looked quite a bit like open source conventions, just with different stickers. And the "beer nerds" (including me) I know are just as in to beer as I was in to computers.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#63

Post by derwiki » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 3:42 PM UTC

ironjunkie wrote: post #36

dep_b wrote: post #12

It's kind of weird how people in the US seem to struggle with work life balance. I'm constantly working for US companies remote from outside the US and I can work +/-40 hours per week without any problem.

It took me a while to understand this also especially in the US where everyone complain all the time they work 80 hours a week, especially in tech. In my experience, only a very small fraction of those claiming to do >45hours a week are actually working that much. I think for a lot it provides them a subconscious feeling of importance, and/or an excuse for failed goals in their personal life.

I think some 45+ hr/wk employees really don’t know what else to do with their time, and working longer hours is the “easy” way out.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#64

Post by ssijak » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 3:42 PM UTC

cup-of-tea wrote: post #26

> I just found out some guy who does the same work as me is getting paid 20% more. Yeah and there's probably some guy getting paid 20% less than you for the same job and some woman getting paid 100% for an easier job. Maybe it's best to quit software if you don't even understand basic statistics. This is a great profession which pays very well and has very flexible hours. Go shovel shit if you want. The author just d…

From my experience, people comparing wages like that (without any analysis) are just angry people who are not satisfied by anything. If you would gave him 20% raise, he would find something else to complain. In my company I would cut lose from such people immediately.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#65

Post by quotemstr » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 3:42 PM UTC

indubitable wrote: post #46

jaymzcampbell wrote: post #4

I feel like we as an industry can sometimes forget just how good we have it. Many of my friends do not work in tech, they are low paid, they have stressful jobs with little autonomy, they are not challenged at all and they feel little personal accomplishment in their day today. I appreciate the author alludes to this but having seen friends recently job hunting (outside of tech) I am reminded that even on the worst d…

There's another side of this story as well though. The consequence of having more intellectually challenging work to solve is that by the end of the day you're brain fried. For most people the only way you're really going to get anywhere in life is by staking it out on your own at some point. If you're not earning enough money to save away a sufficient stash, that means you need to be working your day job while also…

For me, intellectually challenging work is invigorating. I don't feel "brain fried".

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#66

Post by Zolomon » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 3:43 PM UTC

jib wrote: post #40

jameskegel wrote: post #11

I read the article; I'm not sure this is so much a criticism of the industry as it is an examination of this developer's personal anecdotal experience. As developers, we lead a very charmed life that others sometimes aren't even born with the chance to intellectually compete for; the author neglects to address how lucky we are to be able to do this at all, let alone to then find employment in it. If it's not an indus…

Shittier jobs I've had than a desk job: 5-6 hours a day biking in -15C snow with wet feet (Mailman). 8 hours a day moving chips one by one in and out of an EPROM writer because it was cheaper to have me do that than pay the extra 2c to have them preprogrammed. The chips were 25c without programming and 27c with. (Ericson subcontractor). And I am privileged as hell, coming from Sweden with a good education and a famil…

Another Swede, was very fun to see that you got a job at Blizzard Entertainment. :D Childhood dread come true?

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#67

Post by zimablue » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 3:44 PM UTC

arkh wrote: post #52

zimablue wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one thing, the wage gap as you're usually used to seeing it presented doesn't mean what it's passed off as meaning. The media prints a number of "X% pay gap, women should stop working every year in July because they're paid that much less" and kind of presume that it means paid less for doing the same work. The gender pay gap number that is always reported is actually just an aggregate mean of salary across the p…

The solution as usual is to start working on programs to train new developers earlier instead of relying on colleges and CS curriculum. Something like the apprenticeships you have in lot of trades.

I'd say the solution is to stop looking for a solution and worry about a problem that matters.

Not that there's 0 discrimination or that it doesn't matter that there is but we live in a heating planet where the US just elected Trump and people live on $1 a day.

And a significant fraction of all arguments on the internet are about why there are more male developers. And the honest truth is mostly that men are way more interested in being developers. It's like funny if it wasn't tragic.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#68

Post by fpisfun » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 3:45 PM UTC

folknor wrote: post #16

I really struggle to find anything worth reacting to in this blog post. It sounds to me like the story of every individual worker in every economy. Most of what she says is entirely self-evident, except for the anecdotes about pay/equity, for which she presents zero evidence. Where is the substance? Why is this interesting? Every dad in the world knows that a hobby is different from work, and that turning your hobby…

It is pretty funny that she would insinuate they would hire more women to pay them less because a good developer is so much more productive than a bad one so, at least for an "on site "job where you're only pulling from local talent it would be horribly destructive to always hire people that are paid a bit less as most likely those willing to take less money will be substantially less skilled.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#69

Post by Bahamut » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 3:45 PM UTC

jaymzcampbell wrote: post #4

I feel like we as an industry can sometimes forget just how good we have it. Many of my friends do not work in tech, they are low paid, they have stressful jobs with little autonomy, they are not challenged at all and they feel little personal accomplishment in their day today. I appreciate the author alludes to this but having seen friends recently job hunting (outside of tech) I am reminded that even on the worst d…

All this was sort of my impression too.

I always reflect on the anniversary of my first job in tech (hitting the 5 year mark in a few days) - I still remember the days where I didn’t have enough money to eat, and I would have to ration out oatmeal for a week just to survive. I remember my days in the Marine Corps in infantry, sometimes with days where I only had 2 hours of sleep, and any mistake negatively reinforced with less sleep - I remember being the recepient of all the shit jobs and low sleep for a field op because I lost a PEQ-16 on a night op, and we ended up combing the field for it (thankfully I remembered the right information to find it, and didn’t get written up).

I gladly do menial tasks, and go above and beyond at my craft - I don’t take things for granted because I hated life where I had to depend on the kindness of friends to live.

That said, I very much enjoy what I do given that context - I get to solve problems, and make any necessary changes to help make development experience nicer. It’s not as difficult as when I was in grad school, and it pays exceedingly well. I don’t have many complaints, unless management strangles our ability to deliver/have unrealistic expectations (expecting more than 40 hours a week as a rule, not an exception - I’m happy to work more sometimes, but on my terms). I don’t have that problem with my current job, and hope to not deal with it again.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#70

Post by jameskegel » Thu, Nov 23, 2017, 3:46 PM UTC

fpisfun wrote: post #61

jameskegel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Until basic income comes along I think we have to just get over it. Most jobs aren't going to provide you with fun for 8 hours a day. I feel like the older I get the more I understand that a job is a way for me to trade time for money, I don't have to (or should expect to) like it. This is something I think is a fault of my generation (née 1985), when we started to create this fairytail narrative of participation t…

There's still a huge divide in terms of talent, the vast majority of programming jobs outside silicon valley seem to be working on legacy code that is terribly architected (think Java apps written in a procedural style, etc) whereas top companies are making full use of more modern approaches and tools. It will be a very long time things even out and programming jobs are similar across the board.

> the vast majority of programming jobs outside silicon valley seem to be working on legacy code that is terribly architected

How can you say things like this? The internet is the great equalizer of distances; it does not matter what geographic location you live in, you could be working on anything.

On a sidenote, I can't tell if you are trying to be deliberately offensive or if you're someone who's never left SV.