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I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

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Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#21

Post by tboyd47 »

jameskegel wrote: post #11

I read the article; I'm not sure this is so much a criticism of the industry as it is an examination of this developer's personal anecdotal experience. As developers, we lead a very charmed life that others sometimes aren't even born with the chance to intellectually compete for; the author neglects to address how lucky we are to be able to do this at all, let alone to then find employment in it. If it's not an indus…

It's not too much to ask for equitable pay or a non-hazardous environment.

Gratitude for something doesn't necessitate being blind to ways that thing could be improved.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#22

Post by pfarnsworth »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #13
draugadrotten wrote: post #5

> Also once in a while some jerk will be like “if women really were paid less why wouldn’t companies hire more women to save money?” I’m pretty sure they already do this and that recent lawsuits will reveal it is a common practice. My experience is companies are thrilled to hire women, it makes them look good AND they can usually pay them less. It’s not about quotas. This misandristic conspiracy theory distracted me…

Lol, messed up but it makes an interesting point. Why don't people hire mostly women and save a bunch on payroll? Does the wage gap exist because companies pay women less due to being sexist or because of other confounding factors?

It could easily be explained by the sentiment, which I do not share or agree with, that “male programmers are better, but we are forced to hire women so let’s pay them less”.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#23

Post by Mattish »

If you replace 'developer' with plenty of other job roles, then everything here still applies.

There is /no/ job that allow you to ignore all risks a business has like a hobby does. That is the difference here.

>If I won the lottery would I still code? I would, but it would not be like work. It would be projects I enjoyed. And it would be fewer hours. >I took the developer job because the medical bills piled up

You want it to be a enjoyable job with lower hours, but you don't want deal with hardship that comes with it? You can't have it both ways.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#24

Post by da02 »

dep_b wrote: post #12

It's kind of weird how people in the US seem to struggle with work life balance. I'm constantly working for US companies remote from outside the US and I can work +/-40 hours per week without any problem.

What kind of applications or work do you do for them?

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#25

Post by skybrian »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #13
draugadrotten wrote: post #5

> Also once in a while some jerk will be like “if women really were paid less why wouldn’t companies hire more women to save money?” I’m pretty sure they already do this and that recent lawsuits will reveal it is a common practice. My experience is companies are thrilled to hire women, it makes them look good AND they can usually pay them less. It’s not about quotas. This misandristic conspiracy theory distracted me…

Lol, messed up but it makes an interesting point. Why don't people hire mostly women and save a bunch on payroll? Does the wage gap exist because companies pay women less due to being sexist or because of other confounding factors?

Why not both?

More seriously, plenty of research has been done, though I don't actually know much about it. I guess Wikipedia would be the place to start.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#26

Post by cup-of-tea »

> I just found out some guy who does the same work as me is getting paid 20% more.

Yeah and there's probably some guy getting paid 20% less than you for the same job and some woman getting paid 100% for an easier job. Maybe it's best to quit software if you don't even understand basic statistics.

This is a great profession which pays very well and has very flexible hours. Go shovel shit if you want. The author just doesn't seem to want to work. That is all.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#27

Post by arkh »

johnrichardson wrote: post #6

In my experience, it's counterproductive to code more than 4-5 hours per day. At a certain point you start introducing bugs/inadvertent complexity whose negatives outweigh any feature contributions you're making. There's lots of research which bears this out. E.g., https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/why-working-more-than-4...

That's why I encourage coders to document things.

Code and test for 4 hours, document what is not, maybe work on easing on-boarding on your projects or even other's. And read. Developing software is about a lot more things than the code. If you are making things for other departments of your company, don't hesitate to go check how your "clients" use your software and what the pain points are. Check what is done in other technologies so you can get new ideas.

If you think software programmer is sitting at your desk churning code don't complain you are not paid enough and have shitty health. Also if you're paid less than other people at your company and they don't do anything more than you it is time to ask for a raise while looking at other jobs.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#28

Post by bittercynic »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #13
draugadrotten wrote: post #5

> Also once in a while some jerk will be like “if women really were paid less why wouldn’t companies hire more women to save money?” I’m pretty sure they already do this and that recent lawsuits will reveal it is a common practice. My experience is companies are thrilled to hire women, it makes them look good AND they can usually pay them less. It’s not about quotas. This misandristic conspiracy theory distracted me…

Lol, messed up but it makes an interesting point. Why don't people hire mostly women and save a bunch on payroll? Does the wage gap exist because companies pay women less due to being sexist or because of other confounding factors?

Inertia seems like an adequate explanation. Since there is a history of paying women less, you expect to be able to hire a woman with a smaller offer, other companies expect the same, so the best offer she gets is not the same as the best offer a man with the same capability gets.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#29

Post by sillysaurus3 »

jameskegel wrote: post #20
jaymzcampbell wrote: post #4

I feel like we as an industry can sometimes forget just how good we have it. Many of my friends do not work in tech, they are low paid, they have stressful jobs with little autonomy, they are not challenged at all and they feel little personal accomplishment in their day today. I appreciate the author alludes to this but having seen friends recently job hunting (outside of tech) I am reminded that even on the worst d…

> Until basic income comes along I think we have to just get over it. Most jobs aren't going to provide you with fun for 8 hours a day. I feel like the older I get the more I understand that a job is a way for me to trade time for money, I don't have to (or should expect to) like it. This is something I think is a fault of my generation (née 1985), when we started to create this fairytail narrative of participation t…

These are jobs, we do our jobs then we go home, if we like our homes and things and activities, we need to go back to our jobs. There is a balance that must not be disturbed.

It would be interesting to peek ahead a few centuries and see how much they agree with this.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#30

Post by pfarnsworth »

I don’t agree with James Damore’s writing, but he never said that women were there because the bar was lowered.

He said that the reason there are less women in tech is due to the fact that the way it’s set up right now makes it less interesting or desirable for most women, and he suggested ways to change the nature of programming jobs and how programming is done in order to naturally attract more women to the field.

If anything, OP’s blog post reinforces what James Damore was trying to accomplish, albeit in a misguided way.

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