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To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

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Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#51
On Last mile in copper or fiber networks becomes easily a market failure due to large capital cost.

In many European countries (Finland for example) the last mile is divided by law into two services cable providers and internet provider. It can be the same, but other ISP's can get into business by making deal with the customer and renting the network. There are regulations for the maximum price of the rent.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#52
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be clear on something. "The Internet" doesn't care how Americans go about ruining their economy by prioritizing certain network traffic. As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. If anything the FCC rejecting net neutrality may be a boon for investment in EU startups and might actually benefit the EU tech sector. So go right ahead and take a crap on yourself America. But let's be clear that the…

>As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. You can't be more wrong. Since Netflix, Amazon, youporn, imgur, reddit will be affected by this and they will have to pay more to keep their bandwidth on the same level as now, or slower by only 10% (hey, they could slow down their network links by 60%, but since they pay 20M per year, its slower by only 10%!) you as the end, you the end consumer will have t…

I don't think you're in opposition - the argument being, what's going to happen to the location of those services if they're held to ransom by new data transfer fees?

Move them to another jurisdiction without them.

Investment into the EU (in the form of datacenters, locating jobs to prove the work is done there, and the transit costs in the new location).

That being said, the cynic in me agrees that broadly you're right, and whatever the companies do to mitigate the effects of it by moving hosting/transfer elsewhere, they'll use this as an excuse to jack the prices up regardless.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#53
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be clear on something. "The Internet" doesn't care how Americans go about ruining their economy by prioritizing certain network traffic. As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. If anything the FCC rejecting net neutrality may be a boon for investment in EU startups and might actually benefit the EU tech sector. So go right ahead and take a crap on yourself America. But let's be clear that the…

>As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. You can't be more wrong. Since Netflix, Amazon, youporn, imgur, reddit will be affected by this and they will have to pay more to keep their bandwidth on the same level as now, or slower by only 10% (hey, they could slow down their network links by 60%, but since they pay 20M per year, its slower by only 10%!) you as the end, you the end consumer will have t…

Traceroute from Germany shows that none of leave continental Europe, at least not this morning. Are you suggesting that they'll cross-subsidise? That they will raise their euro-denominated prices in order to compensate for increased costs in the US?

They might. Of course. Vendors will raise prices where they think the market will bear it. But it seems strange to assume that by default, vendors will respond to raised costs in one market by raising prices in another.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#54
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be clear on something. "The Internet" doesn't care how Americans go about ruining their economy by prioritizing certain network traffic. As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. If anything the FCC rejecting net neutrality may be a boon for investment in EU startups and might actually benefit the EU tech sector. So go right ahead and take a crap on yourself America. But let's be clear that the…

>As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. You can't be more wrong. Since Netflix, Amazon, youporn, imgur, reddit will be affected by this and they will have to pay more to keep their bandwidth on the same level as now, or slower by only 10% (hey, they could slow down their network links by 60%, but since they pay 20M per year, its slower by only 10%!) you as the end, you the end consumer will have t…

Well, the servers even of USian internet services need not be located in data centers in the US. So we'll just add the emigration of data centers to the list of negative consequences for the US.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#55
post #48
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. You can't be more wrong. Since Netflix, Amazon, youporn, imgur, reddit will be affected by this and they will have to pay more to keep their bandwidth on the same level as now, or slower by only 10% (hey, they could slow down their network links by 60%, but since they pay 20M per year, its slower by only 10%!) you as the end, you the end consumer will have t…

His Internet will still not be affected. The Internet is not just Facebook, reddit, google, youporn and Netflix or the dozen or so popular companies.

Not to mention that most of those have servers in the EU which will not be affected by this. Sure they could raise prices there, but since this would just subsidize US costs a local competitor would have a competitive advantage.

What this non-Net Neutrality does is largely saying "if you want to build an internet-based startup the US may not be the place for you".

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#56
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1: Try to convince the FCC to not vote to kill NN. Step 2: Call your members of Congress and tell them to enshrine NN into law. Step 3: Vote your Rep out next year if they refuse to do what you ask for. Step 4: Vote out the President in 2020 if he vetoes NN. Pretty straightforward, imho.

I don't see how that's straightforward, especially numbers 3 and 4. Are you gonna vote out the president just for NN? Even if you don't think the other guy is gonna be much different in that regard? Americans cast one single vote (in presidential elections) for one of two candidates, on a myriad of issues of every level of seriousness. Leaving aside the fight to convince a majority of americans, just deciding to vote…

One reason to raise stink now is to make it clear to any candidates for 2018 and 2020 elections that this is an issue to which they can pander for the sake of good PR and votes. That applies also (and, perhaps, especially) to the primaries.

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#57
post #14

How about a decentralized internet software that works on local wifi and mesh networking and only needs to send its signals to the cloud when absolutely necessary? Watch this video to see what I mean: https://qbix.com/blog/index.php/2017/08/the-future-of-decent... And this architecture: https://github.com/Qbix/architecture/wiki/Internet-2.0

There's also Broadband-HamNet, which works within the existing regulatory framework (but requires you to have a ham license to fully utilize its potential).

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#58
post #44
post #42

NN will always be under constant threat. My own country had it all enshrined in law only to be overruled by Brussels. You're fighting against an entire industry who will stop at nothing to expand profits.

Brussel actually enforces nn.

The EU enforces a less strict interpretation of NN. The Netherlands stricter law was therefore overruled with a softer version.

This came to light when the ACM (The Dutch FCC if you will) fined T-Mobile for applying a zero rating on music streaming. T-Mobile argues in court they are allowed to do so by EU rule. The Judge agreed.

https://www.wirelessweek.com/news/2017/04/t-mobile-netherlan...

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#59
post #48
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a Dutchie my Internet is largely unaffected by the FCC. You can't be more wrong. Since Netflix, Amazon, youporn, imgur, reddit will be affected by this and they will have to pay more to keep their bandwidth on the same level as now, or slower by only 10% (hey, they could slow down their network links by 60%, but since they pay 20M per year, its slower by only 10%!) you as the end, you the end consumer will have t…

His Internet will still not be affected. The Internet is not just Facebook, reddit, google, youporn and Netflix or the dozen or so popular companies.

[deleted]

Re: To Save Net Neutrality, We Must Build Our Own Internet

#60
During dotCom era there was a Internet2 project. I remember PR statements dubbing it as the "new internet", replacing an decades old network with new infrastructure and modern protocols. It seems Internet2 project is still around, but pivoted a bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet2
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