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“I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

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Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#71

Post by worldsayshi »

repomies691 wrote: post #66
ajnin wrote: post #28

Quitting your job with only 4 month worth of savings, with a new mortgage, to enter an industry known for its oversaturation, extreme competition, and high luck element for indies ? That's insane. Maybe I'm just risk-adverse. That said, I think he actually succeeded, despite appearances. Managing to release a working game in 3 month, that actually got sales, is a feat in itself. The game will keep trickling sales, if…

When I started my company like 10 years ago, I also had savings for only like 4 months. However my plan was not to do games specifically but anything that pays the bills. Though I made one game as well but more like for fun and training, not for money. My various products did little money, though I had to look for gigs quite often to support the development. After 1-2 years I made enough money from the products so th…

I'm curious what kind of work you found and where you found it? If you don't mind telling.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#72

Post by flexie »

ajnin wrote: post #28

Quitting your job with only 4 month worth of savings, with a new mortgage, to enter an industry known for its oversaturation, extreme competition, and high luck element for indies ? That's insane. Maybe I'm just risk-adverse. That said, I think he actually succeeded, despite appearances. Managing to release a working game in 3 month, that actually got sales, is a feat in itself. The game will keep trickling sales, if…

It's not that I disagree, especially with the opinion that the gaming industry is over-saturated and that a lot depends on luck in that industry. But I'd say that 4 months worth of savings is in the better end when starting a new business. Most people who do startups or who otherwise become entrepreneurs have much less than that. And I think having too much of a cushion can lull you into a false sense of "doing something right" and that needing revenue soon can be an excellent motivator.

I was about to get married when I quit my job and started by myself, and my wife also had to quit her job because we moved country. And we honestly didn't really work out whether we were in a bit of debt or if we had savings for a few weeks. Sure, the first 6 months without pay were hard, and so were the next few years with low pay, especially when we had kids.

But if having 6 or 12 months worth of savings is a requirement, then you can rule out just about everyone except rich kids and upper middle class teenagers.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#73

Post by duiker101 »

bolololo1 wrote: post #39
gerardnll wrote: post #35

"... just getting the business prepared ended up costing me about 550 more dollars than I was expecting. That's one month out of the 4 taken out." You saved 2000$? OMG I would wait until 10000€ at least (Spain). At the end, he says: 'I know I can get hired for a good salary again but I don't think it will happen this year' . What do you mean by good salary? Because if you say you have a low mortgage in a low cost cou…

He leaves in Romania not in Spain.

Depending on where in Spain, it's not too much more expensive. I live in Tenerife, and here you can live just fine with 700euro a month

But yhea, even 4/5 months of saving is not enough to start this kind of journey.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#74

Post by eXpl0it3r »

brg1007 wrote: post #26
eXpl0it3r wrote: post #22

> All in all just getting the business prepared ended up costing me about 550 more dollars than I was expecting. That's one month out of the 4 taken out. Either I'm misunderstanding this statement or he really calculated $550 for a whole month. How or in which country is that enough to survive a whole month?

Romania - without paying rent - 550 USD will suffice for 1 month of daily spending. He mentioned that he has a low mortgage which probably splits with his girlfriend and for a 1 bedroom apartment can be as low as 250 USD per month. 750 USD is the average gross monthly income (before taxes ). Usually software developers earn double that.

Okay, but then it's just naive to think that it's enough to have the most minimum amount of money to survive. Before I'd quit my job, I'd make sure that I have at least x months of at least the average income on the side, plus calculating all the required spending for taxes and fees.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#75

Post by virgilp »

stupidcar wrote: post #67
issaria wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's very impressive, and the purpose of the whole post IMO is part of the marketing (call me evil). Also if he didn't quit his job, he probably wouldn't be able to get this far within a year.

He was only a month away from completing the game when he quit. If he'd worked evenings and weekends, and used some vacation time, it seems like he could have easily finished and released the game by early next year. That way he wouldn't have to bet everything on the "magic unicorn" of instant Steam success. I sometimes think people starting businesses take on an unnecessary amount of risk out of some unconscious bel…

From the name, I'm guessing he's Romanian; it's not illegal here to have a contract that states "everything you create, even in the spare time, is the company's property, unless you get written manager approval first". I have exactly such a contract. And yes I know it would be illegal in the US.

(I'm not exactly sure how enforceable such a clause would really be, but that's another story, and I really understand him not wanting to take the risk)

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#76

Post by mfrommil »

The biggest mistake was the assumption that he could ship 700 copies in a couple months. It seems this was based more on what he needed to pay the bills, not in any way tied to what demand would be. This is a fundamental mistake in setting business goals, product pricing, revenue estimates, etc. He could have scoped out similar games in terms of quality, complexity, genre, etc. and based his estimate off of this, or looked at other games conversion % of wish list to paid purchases.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#78

Post by timthelion »

stephenboyd wrote: post #62
lrem wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's when your developer is in Romania. If your game developer lives in bay area, that's a full order of magnitude of difference in cost of living.

The developer said he had four months of savings. And then he said $500 of expenses cost him a whole month.

And can you get by on $500 a month in the bay area if you don't live under a highway overpass?

In Romania you definitely can.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#80

Post by angarg12 »

ajnin wrote: post #28

Quitting your job with only 4 month worth of savings, with a new mortgage, to enter an industry known for its oversaturation, extreme competition, and high luck element for indies ? That's insane. Maybe I'm just risk-adverse. That said, I think he actually succeeded, despite appearances. Managing to release a working game in 3 month, that actually got sales, is a feat in itself. The game will keep trickling sales, if…

GDC: How to Survive in Gamedev for Eleven Years Without a Hit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmwbYl6f11c

TL;DR: prepare for this to happen, and build a long tail of games/sales.

I don't want to sound mean but I don't think anyone should buy the game because they feel sorry and he is begging. I can't condone it. It has become trendy for people to make GoFundMe campaigns or write articles begging people to help.

Assume people do buy your game because they are sorry, and you manage to get by. Is that how you intend to create a sustainable business? What about other indie devs who failed, maybe even harder? Should they also write articles with their sad story? What about those who don't make it to the top of Hackernews? Should what is essentially charity support people taking risks?

I take this article as a cautionary tale of what could go wrong when you go indie, one of those that we need more of in face of the wild success stories that saturate media.

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