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What Made the SR-71 Blackbird Such a Badass Plane (2015)

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Re: What Made the SR-71 Blackbird Such a Badass Plane (2015)

#141

Post by wallace_f »

masklinn wrote: post #119
wallace_f wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, note the Vanguard rocket. We lost the space race due to politics. We had the people who knew how to build it--who later built the Saturn V--and after they did, were promptly kicked out. The Soviets had childish, despicable politics of their own going on, with important rocket engineers like Korolev being accused by his colleague Glushko of treason, sending Korolev to the gulag for Glushko's professional advanta…

> The Soviets had childish, despicable politics of their own going on, with important rocket engineers like Korolev being accused by his colleague Glushko of treason, sending Korolev to the gulag for Glushko's professional advantage.[1] It went both ways, Glushko consisered Korolev to be irresponsibly cavalier and autocratic with anything outside of [Korolev's] specialities, which included Glushko's (liquid-fueld roc…

We could debate the merits of either's designs, but Korolev was the first to (1) develop an ICBM (2) put a satellite in orbkt, and (3) impact and orbit a payload on the moon

Re: What Made the SR-71 Blackbird Such a Badass Plane (2015)

#142

Post by eesmith »

ethbro wrote: post #134
Fnoord wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I assume NATO knew about this.) There's no such thing as telling your own people. Once you inform your own population about it, the enemy knows about it as well. The same as is true with regards secret service such as CIA and NSA. As you say, that doesn't fly here, since the Soviet government knew, and the US government knew the Soviet government knew. Why you don't want to talk about that could be because its an el…

> public discussion That's the reason in my opinion. (A) If the Soviets publicize US penetrations of their airspace, they look militarily weak. (B) If the US publicizes their penetrations, then (A) as the Soviet public possibly finds out, any fatalities (and there were some) now become part of public debate, and additional parties in the US are now involved in the discussion as to whether or not these should happen.…

That sounds reasonable.

Though I don't think your (B)(A) regarding the Soviet public was that important. Rather, if the Soviet public were influential, would there have been the gulag system, which ended less than a decade before Powers was shot down?

But the US response to the Soviets shooting down Powers was to lie to the public. Surely the US could have remained silent or non-committal, rather than construct a cover-up, and walk into Khrushchev's publicity trap. According to Wikipedia, Eisenhower said to his secretary "I would like to resign."

That leads to the obvious question - how often does the US government lie to the public?

Re: What Made the SR-71 Blackbird Such a Badass Plane (2015)

#143

Post by Terr_ »

josephcooney wrote: post #121
Terr_ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the armed forces will completely ignore data on flight characteristics due to politics There's a comedy/dramatized-history called "The Pentagon Wars" starring Cary Elwes, following the development of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA

This is hilarious.

I find it's applicable to some software projects as well.

Re: What Made the SR-71 Blackbird Such a Badass Plane (2015)

#145

Post by badosu »

eesmith wrote: post #142
ethbro wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> public discussion That's the reason in my opinion. (A) If the Soviets publicize US penetrations of their airspace, they look militarily weak. (B) If the US publicizes their penetrations, then (A) as the Soviet public possibly finds out, any fatalities (and there were some) now become part of public debate, and additional parties in the US are now involved in the discussion as to whether or not these should happen.…

That sounds reasonable. Though I don't think your (B)(A) regarding the Soviet public was that important. Rather, if the Soviet public were influential, would there have been the gulag system, which ended less than a decade before Powers was shot down? But the US response to the Soviets shooting down Powers was to lie to the public. Surely the US could have remained silent or non-committal, rather than construct a cov…

> That leads to the obvious question - how often does the US government lie to the public?

Lie I don't know, but omit/diverge all the time.

Re: What Made the SR-71 Blackbird Such a Badass Plane (2015)

#147

Post by godelmachine »

strictnein wrote: post #10
mikeokner wrote: post #3

My favorite story about the SR-71 being badass: http://oppositelock.kinja.com/favorite-sr-71-story-107912704...

A good one (although some may dislike it): On the way back from a mission to the middle east, they ended up flying over France, even though France had refused them clearance. They were flying low and slow (relative terms obviously), and the pilot looked to his left and saw a French Mirage just off his left wing. The Mirage pilot called over and requested their diplomatic clearance code. The SR-71 pilot told the Mirag…

Nice one!! Did he transmit the middle finger in Morse code or what?

Re: What Made the SR-71 Blackbird Such a Badass Plane (2015)

#148

Post by godelmachine »

cyberferret wrote: post #20
mikeokner wrote: post #3

My favorite story about the SR-71 being badass: http://oppositelock.kinja.com/favorite-sr-71-story-107912704...

That story is out of Brian Schul's book (he used to be an SR-71 pilot). I am lucky enough that years ago, a girl who had a crush on me bought me that book. Its out of print now, and I've seen copies on eBay for > $1000. Next to Ben Rich's "Skunk Works", it is one of the best books on the SR-71 that I have ever read.

Please suggest some more books on SR 71 BlackBird & SkunkWorks

Re: What Made the SR-71 Blackbird Such a Badass Plane (2015)

#149

Post by tonteldoos »

katastic wrote: post #13
jotm wrote: post #9

" The U-2 can still fly higher than the Global Hawk, carry a greater payload, and its sensors have more of a slant range. The Global Hawk also lacks de-icing equipment and countermeasures against Russian SAMs. We may be entering the age of drones, but old-fashioned piloted planes can still do a thing or two." Why not just copy the U2 and make an improved, unmanned version?

Probably because: - The U2 uses old parts that aren't wildly/cheaply available anymore. - The Global Hawk doesn't have a person in it. So they can send them into more dangerous situations without worrying. Which means they likely want a cheaper robot version. (Though, before RnD costs which skyrocketed, the price appeared to be only about 10mil cheaper.) - New sensor modules have a different footprint that the shell…

I'm struggling to find it now, but there's a saying attributed to some well known military figure (paraphrasing slightly):

There are two stages to any defence procurement project - too soon to tell, and too late to stop.

EDIT:

Found it. A Ernest Fitzgerald, and Fitzgerald's First Law: "There are only two phases of a program. The first is 'It's too early to tell.' The second: 'It's too late to stop.'

Re: What Made the SR-71 Blackbird Such a Badass Plane (2015)

#150

Post by tonteldoos »

cyberferret wrote: post #61
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #52

I always preferred the SR-77 Blackbird, myself.

"Blackbird" was the moniker for the SR-71. I've never heard of the SR-77. Either you have information on a super secret skunk works project, or else I suspect you might be taking the mickey out of the editors of the article for their SR-1 typo?

I've read (unsure if factual, can't find a source right now) that the plane's original designation was to be RS-71 (because reconnaissance).

At some point, in a speech or introduction, some high ranking official misread that as SR-71, and after that all documentation was updated to show this new designation.

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