Live data from Hacker News

Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

wsj.com

101–110 of 435 posts

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#101
post #84

All of the cases where I have seen Excel sheets get "out of control" are not because someone came along and decided to implement a complex system in Excel, far from it. I tend to see small, well suited, sheets being created in Excel, and then iteratively new features get added "Wouldn't it be great to automatically get averages each month" "Perhaps we could pull in exchange rates so we have up to date currency values…

To be fair, this kind of unobstructed scope creep is how all software gets "out of control," not just Excel sheets.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#102
post #19

Excel shouldn't be used for much other than trivial things: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/08/one-five-genetics-pap... https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/09/daily-... he authors found that Microsoft Excel would often interpret “SEPT2”, which corresponds to the gene Septin 2, as “September 2nd”. The programme also tended to mistake identification codes like “2310009E13” for numbers in scientific n…

> Excel shouldn't be used for much other than trivial things Good luck with that, but it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. Many "non-trivial" applications got their start at someone's desk in the form of a shitty excel spreadsheet with horrific macros. Is it optimal for "complex analysis"? No, but it doesn't matter because most things are computationally simple. The hard part is the intricate business logic and the ti…

I agree with that. Modern software development has version control, unit tests, package managers, etc. Ideally we get support for some of those concepts in something that feels like a spreadsheet to the end user. (I'm not sure if it could ever be retrofitted to Excel)

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#104
post #18

I would argue that the most commonly used programming language is Excel. But few of the people using it realize they're programming. It's a brilliant reactive data programming model that makes intuitive sense to non-technical users. They feel empowered to use it to solve problems right now with a computer. They experiment with it, try things, Google how to do more things- just like any programmer does. And they feel…

I used to be a Lotus Notes specialist, and one interesting thing I noticed is that from the earliest versions it was designed specifically to be a "step up" from a spreadsheet (Lotus of course also made Lotus 1-2-3, which was the original killer-app spreadsheet before Excel took over).

Notes still let you see data as rows and columns and had very spreadsheet-like functions, many of which could be transferred directly from Lotus 1-2-3 - but it was a full client-server system which supported decentralized replication, built-in messaging and email, and a solid security model (yes yes I know it was also a crazy confused mess and a UI nightmare but that's a different topic).

Back in the day, organizations had teams going around finding the most useful ad-hoc spreadsheets and converting them into simple Lotus Notes databases. Other organizations would sometimes also give staff training in building simple Notes databases - not a whole lot more difficult than doing a spreadsheet - and then have expert teams come in and polish them up as needed. This made business software bottom-up rather than top-down, which turned out to be a whole lot more useful in a lot of cases.

In many ways, even after I left the Notes world for PHP and Rails and JS, my career in business software has still mostly been about converting spreadsheets into more "proper" applications.

Spreadsheets are the 'blue-green algae' of the software world: the simple base level that's everywhere and surprisingly essential.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#105

The core complaint of not having a single source of truth seems more about how the company handles data/filing rather than Excel itself. Maybe I'm a bit bias having used Excel my entire career and very dependent on it, but everytime I've seen companies steer away from the desktop application with 0365/sheets/tableau its simply not as useful for adhoc data analysis and reporting.

This! I happen to use and advocate for R/RStudio for ad-hoc work (I spin it as "excel on steroids" when I am trying to convince someone). But it is hard to pull people away from something that has worked for them. The alternatives to excel in the past have been really, really unpleasant to use. A now EOL product from Oracle comes to mind. It is called "Discoverer"-- that's right, "Discover" + "er". It is a turgid POS…

IMO if you really want non-tech users to become more technical and use DBs as single source of truth, use KNIME. It still needs proper reporting addons though, but you can export data, even to tableau.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#106
post #18

I would argue that the most commonly used programming language is Excel. But few of the people using it realize they're programming. It's a brilliant reactive data programming model that makes intuitive sense to non-technical users. They feel empowered to use it to solve problems right now with a computer. They experiment with it, try things, Google how to do more things- just like any programmer does. And they feel…

Functional programming before it was fashionable!

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#107

I'm on the market for another startup idea and one of the most ubiquitous advice I'm hearing nowadays is that "there's a startup in every Excel sheet". From that perspective WSJ is doing a great job in making the bed for these ideas: startups will eventually want to sell to those "Finance Chiefs" which is never an easy job.

I'm in London too, doing a bootstrapped Excel startup. See my profile for contact details.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#109
post #63
post #22

The phrases "avoid data silos" and "we want single source of truth" have been used repeatedly about Excel misuse/abuse/overuse for 20+ years. The WSJ story talks about the complaint but not about the underlying tension between data redundancy vs data manipulation. Excel endures because it's the non-programmer's REPL for data. Like a Lisp REPL, using Excel is nimble and has an instant feedback loop. Click "A-Z" to sor…

None of the centralized systems with even the slickest web GUIs can match Excel's capabilities. You can very easily use Excel as a client to a central database and get the best of both worlds.

Actually you run into the one of Excel's biggest problems when you do this, namely "Multiple versions of the truth". Here's how that happens: The central database often contains bad data. Users "fix" the bad data in their spreadsheet. Excel doesn't have the ability to write the updated data back to the database. Now everyone has their own versions of "the truth". There are products that attempt to solve this problem by adding the ability to write modified data back to the database. See for example Pebble Reports, http://pebblereports.com/features/ but this is a reporting program and does not have spreadsheet capabilities.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#110
post #18

I would argue that the most commonly used programming language is Excel. But few of the people using it realize they're programming. It's a brilliant reactive data programming model that makes intuitive sense to non-technical users. They feel empowered to use it to solve problems right now with a computer. They experiment with it, try things, Google how to do more things- just like any programmer does. And they feel…

Excel is simultaneously flexible enough to solve a wide array of problems and structured enough to enable larger tasks like slicing and filtering data. This article is trying to push for cloud-based silos that solve specific problems, but most of them fall apart in "real-world" scenarios because they aren't flexible enough to support the ad-hoc workflows people have developed over years.
Post reply on HN