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Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

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Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#81
post #18

I would argue that the most commonly used programming language is Excel. But few of the people using it realize they're programming. It's a brilliant reactive data programming model that makes intuitive sense to non-technical users. They feel empowered to use it to solve problems right now with a computer. They experiment with it, try things, Google how to do more things- just like any programmer does. And they feel…

When I consulted at a health insurance company (a Blue Cross Blue Shield licensee with 1000 employees, 200 IT staff) about 10 years ago, I was absolutely horrified that the system of record for health care plan data was Excel spreadsheets. They had staff who would update the claims processing system based on thousands of spreadsheets. When you called customer service, the CSR app would auto-open the member's plan inf…

The problem is switching would mean transitioning to a generalized system that they would have to work around. The Excel system looks like a nightmare to the HN crowd, but it was built around their business processes. It's basically a boutique app designed specifically for their job, it would be very hard to find a general product that does the job as well.

I've seen this a lot where a consultant will swoop in and tell them that they need to use Peoplesoft or something and the organization spends millions of dollars and years of retraining to get a system that has a lot more friction in their actual workflow and is never quite as good for getting the job done.

Of course there are often side benefits that can't be overlooked, like a much more sane backup solution, interoperability with other providers, etc... But in the end most of the employees will tell you straight up that the old system was better. Too much of the domain knowledge was baked into the old system and doesn't make the transition to the new system.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#82
post #63
post #22

The phrases "avoid data silos" and "we want single source of truth" have been used repeatedly about Excel misuse/abuse/overuse for 20+ years. The WSJ story talks about the complaint but not about the underlying tension between data redundancy vs data manipulation. Excel endures because it's the non-programmer's REPL for data. Like a Lisp REPL, using Excel is nimble and has an instant feedback loop. Click "A-Z" to sor…

None of the centralized systems with even the slickest web GUIs can match Excel's capabilities. You can very easily use Excel as a client to a central database and get the best of both worlds.

Can you easily integrate with externals systems via REST & SOAP? I've done some quick web searches on this topic and have never seen anything that jumped out at me.

I know Google Sheets gives you a little bit of this with Javascript embedding but I was searching for something more tightly integrated with Excel or LibreOffice.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#83
post #18

I would argue that the most commonly used programming language is Excel. But few of the people using it realize they're programming. It's a brilliant reactive data programming model that makes intuitive sense to non-technical users. They feel empowered to use it to solve problems right now with a computer. They experiment with it, try things, Google how to do more things- just like any programmer does. And they feel…

When I consulted at a health insurance company (a Blue Cross Blue Shield licensee with 1000 employees, 200 IT staff) about 10 years ago, I was absolutely horrified that the system of record for health care plan data was Excel spreadsheets. They had staff who would update the claims processing system based on thousands of spreadsheets. When you called customer service, the CSR app would auto-open the member's plan inf…

>When I consulted [...] We recommended they implement a PDM (product data management) system.

>We recommended they get a system that manages their product data

Yep, I believe you are a consultant.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#84
All of the cases where I have seen Excel sheets get "out of control" are not because someone came along and decided to implement a complex system in Excel, far from it. I tend to see small, well suited, sheets being created in Excel, and then iteratively new features get added

"Wouldn't it be great to automatically get averages each month"

"Perhaps we could pull in exchange rates so we have up to date currency values"

"As we need to compare this to employees here, and because we actually have a list of employees in another sheet for holiday and sickness, why don't we put the employees into another separate sheet and cross reference it from both places"

"When we add a new employee wouldn't it be nice if these sheets automatically update"

"We want to pull in this live data every day at midnight, perhaps we can have an automated job for that"

Then when someone says "hmm, I don't think Excel is the right tool for the job" there is often general agreement, but at that point there are lots of interconnected sheets, formulas, external data being pulled in, cron jobs, etc. and the system manages a lot of different things, none of which you particularly want to be without and despite the complexities, people have been with it over iterations, so they are actually quite familiar with how it all works.

But then a couple of people with the knowledge leave, a new person takes over, and their first job is to remove Excel and come up with a much better system. They try, users complain it doesn't do certain things as well, over time in improves, somehow certain things never seem quite as good, but then new features have been added so people forget and find the next thing to complain about instead!

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#85

The core complaint of not having a single source of truth seems more about how the company handles data/filing rather than Excel itself. Maybe I'm a bit bias having used Excel my entire career and very dependent on it, but everytime I've seen companies steer away from the desktop application with 0365/sheets/tableau its simply not as useful for adhoc data analysis and reporting.

Agreed. Excel users should learn more about importing data from other sources and processing that. Excel itself should make it even more obvious.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#86
post #63
post #22

The phrases "avoid data silos" and "we want single source of truth" have been used repeatedly about Excel misuse/abuse/overuse for 20+ years. The WSJ story talks about the complaint but not about the underlying tension between data redundancy vs data manipulation. Excel endures because it's the non-programmer's REPL for data. Like a Lisp REPL, using Excel is nimble and has an instant feedback loop. Click "A-Z" to sor…

None of the centralized systems with even the slickest web GUIs can match Excel's capabilities. You can very easily use Excel as a client to a central database and get the best of both worlds.

>easily use Excel as a client to a central database and get the best of both worlds.

Yes it seems that way but many spreadsheets exist because the centralized system is an incomplete solution.

For example, a company might have a "human resources tracking" centralized system. (E.g. Ariba, Peoplesoft, etc). It has some standard features like ingesting resumes and extracting "skills" from parsing MS Word docs, etc.

However, the company happens to use a interviewing process where the candidate must pass (1) phone interview and (2) onsite with 5 peer programmers, and (3) hiring manager.

The hiring manager wants to "capture" all of those states (phone_passed=True/False, peer interviews with 5 different numerical scores, manager_pass=True/False). The centralized system doesn't have fields that capture all that so the hiring manager creates a spreadsheet that has those extra columns. Many spreadsheets out in the wild "fill the gap" between incomplete centralized systems and custom IT programming. An adhoc xls file can be created far faster than submitting a change request to the corporate IT department to customize Ariba -- which could take months (or never) to implement.

Or spreadsheets act as the "intersection" of data between multiple systems. Again, one purpose of centralized "data warehouses" was to eliminate Excel "data silos" but again, no IT department can create data warehouse solutions (which also includes all the custom reports) as fast as someone creating spreadsheets and just emailing them around.

Having a hybrid process where Excel acts as a round-trip offline client to a central db doesn't really eliminate the fundamental reason Excel (over)use keeps multiplying like rabbits.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#87
post #50

Don't blame Excel if your processes suck. Excel is a tool, namely a Swiss army knife to edit and present data that is commonly used in business. It can be very powerful if you know what you are doing.

Swiss army knife is a good analogy. Sure, it does lots of things, but if you want to do really big work, you'll probably want a chef's knife, or a saw, or a pair of scissors, not miniature versions of each designed to fit in a small package.

That said, it's a great tool to survive in the woods :)

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#88
post #42

Can anybody think of other examples of products or tools that fall into the category of: “many people use them, even though management tells them not to, because it helps them get stuff done.” I’m not a mechanic, but is WD40 an example? Or maybe some tool like a hand held circular saw, in home construction? And, other examples from the tech world?

Trello. In the last few jobs I've had there's almost always been a developer who has their own personal to do list on a trello board, even if we had robust tracking systems like jira and rally.

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#89
post #47

How much does it cost to get an advertisement like this in the WSJ?

what are they advertising?

"Instead, companies are turning to new, cloud-based technologies from Anaplan Inc., Workiva Inc., Adaptive Insights and their competitors.

The newer software connects with existing accounting and enterprise resource management systems, including those made by Oracle Corp. or SAP SE. This lets accountants aggregate, analyze and report data on one unified platform, often without additional training.

Adobe switched to Anaplan early last year and many of the tasks previously performed in spreadsheets are now done in the system, maintaining “one source of truth,” Mr. Garrett said."

Re: Stop Using Excel, Finance Chiefs Tell Staffs

#90
post #3

> A year ago, Mr. Bell’s team spent hours distributing hundreds of Excel spreadsheets to regional and unit leaders each month for planning and performance tracking of the company’s 415 U.S. restaurants, he said. Now the same process takes minutes. Then I believe it should say stop abusing Excel. Excel can be an incredibly useful tool, but it's definitely not universally useful. If you're using it to manually collate…

Agree.

> A year ago, Mr. Bell’s team spent hours distributing hundreds of Excel spreadsheets to regional and unit leaders each month for planning and performance tracking of the company’s 415 U.S. restaurants, he said. Now the same process takes minutes.

Reads to me like, "last year Mr. Bell's team spent hours hammering in nails by smacking them with the wooden part of the hammer's handle"

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