It is interesting that wages spiked and yet hourly rate is being considered the only relevant factor by many. Most of these jobs require behaving in a servile manner toward some assholes who have zero respect or commitment and start the process with a drug test in order to make the fundamental lack of trust explicit. The way corporate America treats candidates and employees is unacceptable at any price for many people.
Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
511–520 of 606 posts
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#512The article says no, but are there any dissented view that sees a causation between Trump policies and the rise in blue collar wages? Please, polite answers only. I'm just a foreigner that want to understand a little more.
Usually, long term who is president doesn't matter much. Like others have pointed out, this looks like the recovery from the housing crash of 2008.
http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average...
However, just to show that with the right zoom level, you can make data show you anything, look at 3 year graph, and it shows that up until Nov 2016, the graph was flat-lining, even with some large dips, but then it started going up and has been doing so since. I am sure Trump supporters will say "see, there's your cause!".
And maybe they are right somewhat. This is the stock market, so perceptions, and perceptions of perceptions of future income get folded into the price. So maybe a hope of a more business friendly environment was started to be factored in.
One thing I have little doubt of is that had the market done the opposite and gone down the same amount, every media outlet and Reddit's politics subs would immediately become macroeconomic experts and blame everything on Trump. The reason I say it is because there was a dip the night of the election, and I clearly remember how MSNBC hosts printed out after-hours and Japan stock market results on paper and happily were telling people how their 401k will burn, and jobs will be lost and how they, how had just had a major failure predicting the outcome of the election, had finally validated themselves regarding the stock market crash. But then the very next day the stock market shot up and has been going up since. That's why you don't really find them talking much about the economy. This was one of the surprising articles, and even that from a British company.
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#513Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, the employee contacts the ADA and EEOC. Please reread my comment.
The employee contacts the Americans with Disabilities Act? And beyond that, what guarantees that the EEOC is going to act, and that they'll find in your favor?
Fair enough, the employee will notify their state office that handles ADA complaints.
There's no guarantee for anything in life. There is even a strong likelihood that justice won't be served. But that is a far cry from throwing up our hands and claiming a rigged system. There is a reason why so many malls, stores, and restaurants have disabled-accessible entrances, and it's not wishful thinking. It's enforcement at the state and local level.
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#514It is interesting that wages spiked and yet hourly rate is being considered the only relevant factor by many. Most of these jobs require behaving in a servile manner toward some assholes who have zero respect or commitment and start the process with a drug test in order to make the fundamental lack of trust explicit. The way corporate America treats candidates and employees is unacceptable at any price for many peopl…
I've heard wages have been stagnating since the 70's or onwards. The latest QE or whataver is just the banks trying to kickstart a corpse they killed.
In a horrible way, by funneling huge amounts of made up cash into the Silicon Valley 'ites. And we get Facebook, Twitter and other inane wastes of time.
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Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#515Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think roofers are good example, not sure where you live, but last summer I got roofers scheduled in a week (Boston area). By locally known construction company, I got estimate and contract by American owner/sales man - he probably does well, but the actual work was done by Brazilian crew, which I'm guessing was mostly illegal immigrants likely paid less than minimum wage. From my observations with neighbors a…
My step dad was a roofer when I was growing up. He was the one that did the estimates and found the business and he had a crew of immigrants that did most of the work for him. They earned far above minimum wage. They made $15/hr, under the table, in the early 90s when minimum wage was under $5/hr. Even the grunt roofing work is semi-skilled and paying more allowed him to keep the same crew together over multiple year…
From my anecdotal experience, a lot of recent immigrants (legal or illegal doesn't matter) don't know English and it takes them time (some times many years) before the can work in English speaking environment. Naturally such groups of same ethnicity are formed, and typically are the only work option for new immigrants (who don't speak English). This also means they are paid less, as have limited job options.
I'm not sure if I understood correctly, that your dad's crew was mostly immigrants, why do you think it was like that? If pay was good and semi-skilled (easy to train), why mostly immigrants?
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#516Data Scientist at major company here that was pounding nails in construction circa 2005. This to me is no surprise. At the time I was early 20s and needed that job that would be sort of an apprenticeship. The problem was, these jobs just didn't exist. The young guys (me) got laid of every winter to keep on as many senior crew members as possible and every spring the jobs were less skilled and more labor (think demoli…
Your career path (and its determinants) mirror mine to an uncanny degree. Nonetheless, I disagree that there's a long-term shortage of skilled labor in the US in general, or that any short-term shortage has its root cause in underdeveloped supply channels. I saw first hand how easy it was to procure non-union labor, even at the height of construction boom circa 2004 (when I left construction trades) or 2015 (when I left the construction industry as a licensed engineer). Like yourself, I couldn't compete (or refused to put up with) what's essentially become a migrant work force. While it does take about as long to become a skilled carpenter as it takes to become a software developer (and a strikingly similar mindset too), it's infinitely easier to employ migrant skilled workers, the workers are highly mobile, there's a ready supply of them anywhere there's active construction going on, and everyone in the construction business -- from employers to clients -- has de facto acquiesced in the status quo where work permits are not enforced. Union labor is indeed rather inelastic during the periods of boom and bust, but it's also chronically underemployed, historically shrinking and in the big scheme of things a tiny portion of the overall labor.
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#517Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think roofers are good example, not sure where you live, but last summer I got roofers scheduled in a week (Boston area). By locally known construction company, I got estimate and contract by American owner/sales man - he probably does well, but the actual work was done by Brazilian crew, which I'm guessing was mostly illegal immigrants likely paid less than minimum wage. From my observations with neighbors a…
> the actual work was done by Brazilian crew, which I'm guessing was mostly illegal immigrants likely paid less than minimum wage There are millions of immigrants in the U.S. who are legal; why would you think these people are not? I guess my point is, it's not a good assumption and has bad consequences: People having their legality questioned based on no evidence.
legality questioned? come on, of course it's not good to assume anything about people, lots of things happen in life. That doesn't mean I had to go ask each of them to show me their documents, so I can make a guess on internet forum.
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#518I had a long talk with a guy getting his general contractor's license yesterday. He told me that down in San Diego they are continually short on construction workers, so much that one of his friends said that there is 10 years worth of construction that needs to be done and no one to do it. Wages at ~$45/hr, and probably rising, some projects paying perdiems for commutes from Orange County. Strange.
For perspective, the going wage for a skilled (journey level) carpenter in the SF Bay area is essentially the same today as it was in 2005 (the last time I was part of the labor force). This is from a quick survey of Craigslist ads. If anything, the real wage seems to have decreased.
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#519It is interesting that wages spiked and yet hourly rate is being considered the only relevant factor by many. Most of these jobs require behaving in a servile manner toward some assholes who have zero respect or commitment and start the process with a drug test in order to make the fundamental lack of trust explicit. The way corporate America treats candidates and employees is unacceptable at any price for many peopl…
Have you ever worked a construction or labor job? I don't recall ever having to act in a servile way.
Service jobs on the other hand were the most humiliating experiences of my life. We were expected to take harsh abuse from customers while issuing apologies.
Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?
#520Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doctor pay has almost nothing to do with the absurd medical costs. With 1.1m doctors in the US, and median pay at 180k, that's $200B. US healthcare spending is 3.2 trillion. Beyond that, I think they deserve that much when factoring in the cost of education, liability of the job, and decrease in years of employment. Here's some math: - median age of retirement: 63. - median UPS salary over lifetime: $70k. - UPS drive…
Some other data which tells a different story; I wonder how it all reconciles: In the United States, the richest 1 percent have seen their share of national income roughly double since 1980, to 20 percent in 2014 from 11 percent. ... No other nation in the 35-member Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development is as unequal among those with comparable tax data, and none have experienced such a sharp rise in…
Income is not the same as wealth, and income is irrelevant if it doesn't turn into wealth.
My father is a doctor and he finished paying off his education at 48. I make half what he made and finished paying mine off at 28. I'm drastically more wealthy now, and will be wealthier when I retire. This seems strange given the significant difference in income.
1980 is a very peculiar data point to mention. That year is pretty much exactly when minimum wage and tuition suddenly diverged. Between 1965 and 1980, A full time summer job at minimum wage could consistently pay for ~45% of your tuition. In the next 15 years, it dropped to around 20-25%. Running the numbers for 2017-2018, in-state tuition is 20%, out of state is 11%, and private is 8.6%.
The groups that have contributed the most people to the 1 percent since 1980 are: physicians ...
With all that in mind, this statement doesn't seem unreasonable to me. If education prices have skyrocketed, shouldn't the career that spends the most in education (both time and cost) be compensated accordingly?
Point being, income is only half of the equation to wealth. That article doesn't bother mentioning debt at all.
Relevant assumptions/data:
Summer job: 14 weeks @ 40hrs per week
Tuition costs 2017: https://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tabl...
Older tuition costs: https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76
Minimum wage: https://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm