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Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

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Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#161

This reminds me of The Onion's "High-School Senior Marvels At What A Long, Strange Trip It's Been" http://www.theonion.com/articles/highschool-senior-marvels-a...

Which, in turn, reminds me of "6-Year-Old Stares Down Bottomless Abyss Of Formal Schooling" http://www.theonion.com/articles/6yearold-stares-down-bottom...

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#162
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York city?

I'm guessing not even the US. You don't go to a specialized HS (Hunter, Stuy, Bronx Sci) in NYC and graduate low in your class and get a scholarship. You're lucky to get into a school. MIT isn't looking for 12 people from the same HS, even if they're all geniuses...they want diversity.

The score system is different in Bulgaria. There was nothing like N% of the students get A. In fact - the class I've been in, graduated with 5.50 (6 is the max in Bulgaria), the other class graduated (averaged) with something like 5.75. I graduated with something like 4.40, and the other guy was 4.20, the next worst after me was 5.20 I think. About 30 people in the class.

I basically skipped a lot from the school, but because I was in the computer science (informatics) team, I've got A's (6) on certain subjects, because the teachers decided not to care. Other decided that I should be present more and I've got 3 or 4 - like C or D here in US.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#163
post #110

Oh come on now, Valedictorian, you can find plenty of important life skills to be learned in school if you only look hard enough: kindergarden - learn how to play nicely together first grade - learn how to read and write second grade - learn how to add, subtract, multiply, & divide third grade - learn how to spell fourth grade - learn how to play a musical instrument fifth grade - learn how to appreciate great litera…

Our kid is now 2 and a half, and I'm puzzled - there is Regio Emilia, then Waldorf, Montessori - geeezus!

I'm not sure where is going to be best for him. I mean his just a small child :) - Just playing should be enough for him...

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#164
post #115
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If school taught me anything is that unless im working for myself on what i want, its better to just half ass everything, and not do your best, because all it takes is to not be your worst This is so true. I realized this very thing myself in the second year in high school. I thought: what the hell am I doing trying to get good grades—from every subject? I had been doing precisely that just because I could and with t…

careful on dismissing which European country invaded which European country etc. Unless people have a good understanding of history, they're doomed to repeat it. Something that becomes very clear in times of strife such as the recent world financial crisis. One thing that school is good for is exposing you to ideas that are normally outside your sphere of interest, thus attempting to give you a balanced view of the w…

Ironically the people behind the recent financial crisis are the product of the best our educational system can produce.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#165
post #110

Oh come on now, Valedictorian, you can find plenty of important life skills to be learned in school if you only look hard enough: kindergarden - learn how to play nicely together first grade - learn how to read and write second grade - learn how to add, subtract, multiply, & divide third grade - learn how to spell fourth grade - learn how to play a musical instrument fifth grade - learn how to appreciate great litera…

Er, if you can't read before you get to kindergarten your parents are fucking up. Either that or they're recognizing and embracing the uniqueness of your passion to not read.

Are you talking about the kind of Kindergarten that starts at the age of 3?

(In Germany it would probably not be a good idea to teach your kids how to read before they go to enter school (at age 6 or 7). Schooling is mandatory in Germany, and elementary school is boring enough if you don't already know the stuff they are trying to teach you. If you have more choice for your kids, then reading earlier may or may not be a good idea.)

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#166

ok, for all you school-haters out there on HN, one thing that i think is often overlooked in the 'discussion' of how public schooling is such a mind-numbing rote memorization grind is the fact that it is a way of developing grit, discipline, whatever you call it ... the ability to endure through boring or tedious tasks to achieve some measurable goal. i think that for most people, the biggest determiner of 'success'…

School may teach some people grit and discipline.

But for some people it's just too easy and boring, and they can just coast through. So it doesn't even teach grit and discipline to them.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#167

It is ironic that she is condemning an institution which made it possible for her to write so well and be able to think so originally and creatively. Perhaps she has forgotten, or is unaware, that without the schooling she received, without the need to complete those assignments, or prepare for those tests, she would hardly have been so motivated for the future and full of passion because whatever she might say, she…

"We have been teaching for two millenia" is no way to defend an educational system that developed during the industrial age. The Montessori method was published in 1912, and experience has shown its effectiveness. It is our current public education system, not its critics, that ignores experience. The nearest public Montessori school to me has a waiting list larger than its student body. As a result, I'm sending my k…

It wasn't the Montessori system that put men on the moon. I'm pretty sure it was bright young men sitting in high school math classes, learning to use their slide rules and practicing integration until they got it perfect, then going on to engineering school where they learned even more complex mathematics and physics. Have you ever looked at a math or physics book from the 50s? They lack the full-color illustrations, story problems, and "extra activities" of a modern high school text, yet somehow generations of mathematicians, physicists, and engineers mastered the techniques.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#168
The problem I have with her speech is that it is speaking in wishful grand platitudes, as most V/S-torian speeches do. I know several public school teachers and most have as their primary goal teaching students how to learn and to love learning. It's not like they want to create drones.

But here is where the problems begin. How do you teach a 9th grader how to learn to think about math problems? When I first saw my first geometric proof I thought, "Big deal. Why do I need to learn the proof to something everyone knows is true?" It seemed pedantic to me. But it probably deal a great deal for teaching me how to think analytically. But as a 13 year old, given the choice, I think I'd argue that studying NWA lyrics are far more useful and enlightening.

Again, 9th grade is when a lot of my friends dropped out. Not so they could go grap a copy of Apostle, because the current math curriculum wasn't challenging enough. But because sex, Nintendo, beer, and drugs are a lot more fun than just about anything you can teach in class.

And here's the other problem I have with her speech. No one has been able to construct such an environment, even on the smallest of scales. No charter school, no private school, no home school that I've ever seen.

I think her speech is more wishful thinking than anything else. As a child I used to wish that medical science was wrong. Eating chocolate, pizza, soda, and ice cream were actually really good for you. I theorized that they had overlooked some key facts in body chemistry. But my wishful thinking didn't change the fact that some things are the way they are... and maybe even for good reason.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#169
post #22

It's hard to speak to another's educational experience (I know I've been really fortunate) but is it really as apocalyptic as some of those paragraphs suggest? "Conditioned to blurt out facts" -- "this period of indoctrination" -- "an educational system that clandestinely sets us up for jobs that could be automated, for work that need not be done, for enslavement without fervency for meaningful achievement" Nuance is…

Surely you, too, were once in high school--are not all of those phrases you quoted the exact sort of thing you would have said at that point? I was like that too, occasionally, and oooh did I feel like a clever fellow for thinking such radical thoughts.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#170
post #110

Oh come on now, Valedictorian, you can find plenty of important life skills to be learned in school if you only look hard enough: kindergarden - learn how to play nicely together first grade - learn how to read and write second grade - learn how to add, subtract, multiply, & divide third grade - learn how to spell fourth grade - learn how to play a musical instrument fifth grade - learn how to appreciate great litera…

I read all the boring comments and this is the only one I liked. Learning is hard, caring about stuff that has no relevance to food or sex is hard. School is not about helping the rug rats but getting them out of the adults hair until they can kill their own horse for supper. Edumacation is about following rules. Follow pointless rules in a chain for 200 hours straight and maybe you'll discover something that actually helps the human race. Otherwise its all masturbation. If the kid is stupid, I want the kid beaten into submition. If the kid is smart, he can do the assignments trivially and get an A. I see no need to change the way babysitting kids works. Creativity is not the same as rule following skills. If she really wanted to educate herself she would have realized that she should have been skipping class, reading more sci fi and masturbating harder. She was probably just unhappy from being russian.
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