Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

511–520 of 674 posts

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#511

Post by Spivak »

dragonwriter wrote: post #444
ghrifter wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shh you are going against the hive mind of people that watch a fucking comedian and accept his word as gospel and that this removal of title 2 "hurts muh free speech" Internet companies didnt make fast lanes and shit for 20 years, removal of title 2 and suddenly they are? the fuck.

> Internet companies didnt make fast lanes and shit for 20 years I assume you mean 1984-2004, the 20 years preceding both the FCC first adopting and first acting to enforce network neutrality rules (under the title “Network Freedom” principles, which later became “Open Internet”.) Since 2004 there've been all kinds of non-neutral action and an evolving approach to enforcing neutrality responding to court decisions cl…

Are there any non-neutral actions that aren't behind the scenes peering disputes? Is there an example of an ISP using network policy to maliciously throttle or block traffic from their competitors?

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#512

Post by LocalH »

api wrote: post #271
ChicagoDave wrote: post #69

It's unlikely popular and profitable services will be hindered by the lack of net neutrality. But any new services that threaten existing ones will be hard-pressed to compete. Imagine I start a new streaming service. In order for my service to reach people, ISP's will charge me a higher price than Netflix, probably a _significantly_ higher rate. This will make it extremely difficult for my new service to reach enough…

Don't forget about the cloud oligopolies... "Amazon EC2 and S3 now include prioritized traffic to the network edge through Amazon's deals with over a hundred local and regional ISPs. Just add traffic priority to any elastic IP or S3 bucket and for only $0.04/gb outgoing your traffic will take the fast lane to your customers!" How will Digital Ocean, Vultr, ARP Networks, Linode, etc. compete with that? What we're seei…

Arguably, the Internet is a lot closer to being interstate commerce than a lot of the things the Fed has already stretched interstate commerce to cover.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#513

Post by Coincoin »

marsrover wrote: post #494

The other day I was sitting at home with my family. My parents, two siblings and my grandma, who moved from Germany after WW2. My parents and siblings are sitting around talking about how Trump is going to save America. My brother mentions how a guy in town (also a Trump supporter) said he's a fascist. I'm sitting on the other side of the table and my grandma is looking down at her plate not saying anything. She's ab…

While everybody is busy yelling and flailing about how Trump has small hands and is literally Hitler, those policies, that will have an actual day to day impact on everybody, go through unchallenged.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#514

Post by kilroy123 »

martin_ wrote: post #360

Disclaimer: Resistbot engineer For the past 7 months a group of volunteers has been building and scaling out Resistbot. Almost 5 million faxes and 1 million e-mails have been sent on behalf more than 1.4 million citizens. Super easy and low friction to have your voice heard - simply text RESIST to 50409, or Resistbot on Messenger, Viber, Telegram, we will find your officials, and help you craft your letter. It's impo…

I think at this point that isn't enough though. We need people writing handwritten letters. People actually showing up to their representative's offices and talking to them directly. People showing up to where their representatives are and protesting against those who are for this.

Then, more importantly, actually voting people out of office who support this.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#515

Post by deusofnull »

marsrover wrote: post #494

The other day I was sitting at home with my family. My parents, two siblings and my grandma, who moved from Germany after WW2. My parents and siblings are sitting around talking about how Trump is going to save America. My brother mentions how a guy in town (also a Trump supporter) said he's a fascist. I'm sitting on the other side of the table and my grandma is looking down at her plate not saying anything. She's ab…

"not if anything to say about it, I do" - Yoda

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#516

Post by JohnTHaller »

dmix wrote: post #361
shmerl wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Oliver found a good way to explain it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbOEoRrHyU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92vuuZt7wak The problem is that ISP shills that make these decisions don't care about public opposition. They aren't elected officials.

> The problem is that ISP shills that make these decisions don't care about public opposition But they do care most about making money from the public and no one has convinced me that filtering internet packages by website makes any technical, marketing, or business model sense at all. This has proven to be incredibly unpopular idea with the public for over a decade as well, whenever it has come up in the press. It w…

The majority of Americans can't choose their broadband internet service provider. I live in NYC and have access to exactly one broadband provider. You don't think they'll come up with any reason they can to make up new service levels and add-ons to pad my bill?

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#517

Post by webXL »

zipwitch wrote: post #397
mediocrejoker wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the actual reason they shouldn't? This is a highly politicized topic but it's hard to find rational discussion. If I built a network I would expect to be able to charge whatever I wanted to whomever I wanted in exchange for the use of my network. Is the answer that taxpayers helped fund the network so now feel they deserve not to pay twice? How much of the current internet infrastructure is paid for by taxpay…

Something that seems to be forgotten in this day and age is that corporations exist at the pleasure of the citizens (aka taxpayers) because said corporations offer them things that are deemed to be net public goods. Why should you be allowed to build your network in our country in the first place? (Especially when we could do it ourselves at cost and not give you a percentage off the top?)

I think you're conflating a legal term with actual people, who do the existing, offering, and building. These people (who work under a legal entity with rights, protections, and regulations) pay taxes while they exchange their product or service for our dollars. The service can be anything people want or need. Grocery, clothing, book stores, bars, cafes, airlines... Ignore the "percentage off the top". Why is that a concern of yours? Do you not tip at restaurants or give to charity? Part of your gain can be someone else's. It's all voluntary in the free market.

Not only are you free to not to give money to these corporations, you are free to start your own non-profit service, with a similar legal structure. You have to appeal to investors' altruism rather than their self-interest. A big challenge, but not outside the realm of possibility depending on the market you 'd like to cater to.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#518

Post by yock »

busterarm wrote: post #37

Used to work for a local ISP (ILEC). "Deregulation" isn't a real thing until they remove the incumbent local exchange carrier (ILEC) and competitive local exchange carrier (CLEC) regional monopolies enforced by law. Until that happens, all this does is screw consumers. Honestly, internet service needs to be declared a public utility.

This is where the battle should be. Net neutrality is little more than a gateway for further regulation of the internet by the federal government. Remove barriers to competition and innovation on a local scale and see the need for ISP regulation diminish drastically.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#519

Post by [deleted] »

fokinsean wrote: post #18

Tweet in article: >On December 14, the FCC will vote on Chairman Pai's plan to repeal President Obama's heavy-handed Internet regulations and restore Internet freedom. I love how these laws are veiled with patriotic sentiments, e.g. "Internet Freedom". Just like the "Patriot Act", it is reasonable to assume anything with these sort of labels will likely be an encroachment on your freedoms. Also >"The job of the FCC i…

[deleted]

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#520

Post by LocalH »

fokinsean wrote: post #18

Tweet in article: >On December 14, the FCC will vote on Chairman Pai's plan to repeal President Obama's heavy-handed Internet regulations and restore Internet freedom. I love how these laws are veiled with patriotic sentiments, e.g. "Internet Freedom". Just like the "Patriot Act", it is reasonable to assume anything with these sort of labels will likely be an encroachment on your freedoms. Also >"The job of the FCC i…

>"If you like your cable company, you'll love what this does for the Internet, because it gives Internet service providers the same kind of control over content and price as cable operators have today."

Except it's not, even. In the world of cable TV, the base cost is set by the content providers - the Disneys and such. With this, I guarantee you are going to see ISPs taking action on their own to tier websites and apps, pocketing the extra money, without input from nor payment to the sites which they intend to profit directly from.

Post reply on HN