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Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

economist.com

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Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#421

Post by s73ver_ »

bluedino wrote: post #94
dionidium wrote: post #17

I work at a medium-sized software company. We've had similar problems with younger employees. Guys literally posting in company-wide Slack channels that they're "feeling a little sleepy this morning, gonna be in later." Can you even imagine somebody saying that to their boss in some black-and-white movie from the 1940s? "Hey, how about instead of coming in later you hit the bricks and never come back?" The culture ha…

>> "feeling a little sleepy this morning, gonna be in later." Most clients don't want to deal with that kind of behavior. "It's been 3 hours, why is the site still down?" "The developer isn't in yet to fix it." Being reliable and showing up to work on time is a job skill as much as good communication, being a hard worker, etc I realize that you should be flexible with workers' hours but people also need to realize co…

If that's the situation, either the boss needs to call, or one of the other equally capable people in the office should be able to fix it.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#422

Post by ars »

Clubber wrote: post #203
SamReidHughes wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't pass a drug test it's a sign you can't get your shit together, abstain from weed, and pass a drug test.

No it isn't. You've probably been seen and healed by a great doctor that smokes or has smoked weed recently. There is a good chance your financial advisor, lawyer and/or boss smokes or has smoked weed recently. Most professionals who do certainly don't boast about it with the witch hunting Puritan culture in the US, but there are a lot of them out there, and you've probably never noticed because it's not noticeable.

The point is that these people are capable of stopping for a month, in order to get a job.

If you have that capability you [probably] are also able to make sure it does not negatively impact you.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#423

Post by Jach »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #325
DavidWoof wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always kind of fascinated by posts like this on this site. Could I ask what field you're in that pays 35k/yr, apparently in the US, is in the field of your degree, and yet is somewhat related to Hacker News? Or are you not in tech at all and this site is an outside interest? Or maybe you're just in a rural area? I don't mean this to sound challenging out all, I'm just kind of curious.

I work IT in Springfield, MO. Most lower level positions here have been outsourced or centralized to a tech hub of the country, so to get an "entry level" position requires a four year degree plus a year or two of experience. IT contracting jobs also just pay $10-12/hr here. > Or maybe you're just in a rural area? It's rural compared to the big coastal cities, but is still the third biggest city in my state. IMO, it…

"Relocation isn't an option", well not with that attitude. Your excuse for why doesn't seem very good. In this thread about blue collar jobs, how many blue collar workers are in the US illegally and working their butts off in order to send just about everything they make to their family back across the border? They often have wives, sometimes children, extended family, depending on them. Quite a number of people here legally do the same, too. All relocated despite the same or worse conditions you use as excuses. Maybe they're just not as selfish? Selfishness isn't necessarily a bad thing but it's important to recognize.

Suppose you could find a job elsewhere for $90k+. If you can't, sure, that's a good reason why relocation isn't an option, and finding a job in a location you don't live in is by no means easy. But if you can, then you ought to consider moving, by yourself (since your wife is busy with a career), live in an apartment with one or two other roommates, and live frugally saving/investing as much as you can. Make visits back home when you can, but at $90k+/yr that shouldn't be so hard, depends on how you want to balance your triple sized income. (Higher COL areas will eat into that, but living frugally, not very much.) Do this for 3-4 years, you'll have made more than 10 years at your current location and pay, handwaving away taxes/bonuses/raises/better opportunities. Then quit and relocate back, except now you have a savings cushion and it only cost you another few years of your time.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#424

Post by rayiner »

opportune wrote: post #136
ransom1538 wrote: post #108

>> "Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of showing up on time (or at all)" Don't kid yourself. Those new hires are at other jobs making more money. I am booked for a roofer in feb 2018 (fingers crossed - friend of a friend). Blue skills are in extremely high demand. And those guys are working extremely hard making really high incomes (400k+). These guys are highly paid and are not…

I always read these ridiculously high salaries and laugh. Your average HVAC worker is not making $400k. I do know people in construction/HVAC/plumbers/electricians and it's the bosses making that money, not the grunt workers. The people on the front lines still make good money, for some easily approaching $100k/year, so there's not really a need for embellishment. That isn't to say that it's unattainable, but it's ak…

It’s not all that unusual for the grunt workers to put in their time and become the boss. Out where I live, there are lots of really big houses near the water with vans and dirty pickup trucks out front.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#425

Post by ars »

vorotato wrote: post #323
SamReidHughes wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't pass a drug test it's a sign you can't get your shit together, abstain from weed, and pass a drug test.

If you can't abstain from sex for 30 days it's a sign that you can't get your shit together, abstain from sex and pass a sex test.

Yes. And?

What point are you trying to make?

Are you implying people can not abstain from sex for a month?

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#426

Post by Retric »

csa wrote: post #393
Retric wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get a DoD Clarence without a drug test. Mass testing is often not about Drugs as much as a proxy for other things.

Meh. You have to write down any drug use on your application, and they will most likely ask you about that in the poly. The poly is what busts a lot of people. It's actually ok to have used drugs in the past, you just have to be honest about it and write a letter saying something about not doing so moving forward (an acquaintance of mine had to do this... not sure what the specifics were). Once people are have a clea…

As I understand it practice the rules can be fairly flexible.

I have also heard they mostly stopped drug testing people as they where having difficulty finding enough competent, honest, non-drug users in technical fields. Or possibly more importantly they did not want discrete drug use to be a means of blackmailing someone.

PS: I can only recommend someone either answers all questions accurately and only those specific questions asked, or discreetly declines an investigation and looks for another line of work.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#427

Post by solatic »

rflrob wrote: post #302
solatic wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is that relevant? You have two job applicants. The only thing you know about them is their resume (nicely embellished) and how they performed at their interview (nicely rehearsed). One applicant passes a drug test, one does not. Can you really say that drug test outcomes don't change the risk assessment of each candidate? We can have a conversation about whether employers ought to have access to that informatio…

If the complaint is that you can't find enough workers because too many are failing drug tests[1], then your hypothetical of having "two job applicants" (for an implicit one spot to be filled) is already moot. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/business/economy/drug-tes...

I mean, that's the thing, it's a hypothetical. The non-existence of workers with clean drug tests in the real applicant pool doesn't mean that a failing drug test is less of a risk signal in real applicants.

Remember, new hires are not guaranteed to add value - even if they worked for free, there is always a risk that some will reduce value. If a new hire's inability to show up on time holds up a production line, or a new hire's irresponsibility damages equipment, then you're better off not making the hire, even if you desire, in the abstract, to hire more people and expand your business.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#428

Post by ethagknight »

danielvf wrote: post #9

I worked with small / medium manufacturers in the prosperous part of the Southeast. Hiring is brutal currently. Last week one company setup interviews with 20 possible new workers. One showed up for his interview, and one wandered in the next day. 18 nonshows. Another local company is seeing 50% of new hires failing their first drug test. Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of sho…

As others have pointed out, wages for these job openings that cannot get people to show up are frequently so low that its not worth showing up for them in the first place. Many of these No-Shows have to prove that they are "actively seeking a job" to continue getting whatever benefit they currently receive. And these people are doing the (short term) math, the wages from the job + a full work week < money they get for free from the government. Brutal problem, but paying wages that are market for the kind of employee you want _should_ change that

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#429

Post by bsder »

runeks wrote: post #172
thanatropism wrote: post #29

This comment (not by me; the poster name isn't even visible anymore): > Illegal border crossings on the southern border are down 78% and blue collar wages are rising. Of course correlation does not equal causation, but when there are fewer available workers to hire/train and demand remains constant, wages tend to rise. was marked dead. Why? Is the illegal crossing number wrong/fake news?

> Is the illegal crossing number wrong/fake news? Given that they’re illegal, how could we ever know if the number is down or if they just found some other way to cross the border? Also, it would be quite foolish to think there is only a single factor affecting wages. There are a multitude of factors, and a reduction in the number of illegal immigrants might be one of them, although it’s hard to be sure.

> Given that they’re illegal, how could we ever know if the number is down or if they just found some other way to cross the border?

There are surrogate measures that we can use.

Traffic numbers are a good one in Southern California. When there are crackdowns/bad economy, the traffic decreases markedly. Gasoline sales drop. Those are hard numbers that the state collects.

Money transfer services have to report. Those numbers are recorded.

Just because someone is illegal does not mean they have no impact. This cuts both directions: positive and negative.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#430

Post by freeloop3 »

specialist wrote: post #413
southphillyman wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can one go to learn these "blue collar" skills? As a recent home owner I'm learning first hand how valuable these skills are by way of my wallet. Seems like most people I meet who do these kinds of jobs were "born into it", and learned by helping a family member who was already in the industry. Are there IIT type schools which teach these kinds of things on a part time basis?

I had two bad experiences hiring contractors. I eventually decided that I could make my own mistakes, cheaper, and actually learn something in the process. First step is to read What Your Contractor Won't Tell You [WYCWTY] https://www.amazon.com/What-Your-Contractor-Cant-Tell/dp/097... I wish I had this book before I started. Practical advice from a person who has remodeled 100s of houses. With checklists of things I…

> Plus, when I finish my remodel, I know I can get most of my money back

Just to make sure I understand you correctly, you mean by selling the equipment you bought, right?

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