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Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

economist.com

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Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#411

Post by s73ver_ »

dionidium wrote: post #17

I work at a medium-sized software company. We've had similar problems with younger employees. Guys literally posting in company-wide Slack channels that they're "feeling a little sleepy this morning, gonna be in later." Can you even imagine somebody saying that to their boss in some black-and-white movie from the 1940s? "Hey, how about instead of coming in later you hit the bricks and never come back?" The culture ha…

It's software. It can be done any time of the day. Hell, it can be done at home.

Quite frankly, they are right. Those that complain are in the wrong.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#412

Post by moduspol »

s73ver_ wrote: post #405
moduspol wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody questions your personal ability to voluntarily provide for them, though. The question is how much the rest of us are involuntarily having to provide for them, and more relevantly, whether or not society is even really being improved if the result is an increasing number of people so unable / unwilling to contribute to society that they can't even be bothered to show up for an interview. It is very easy to spen…

We don't know what the circumstances of the interview were, though. It easily could be a minimum wage job, and the other people just found something else.

This isn't the only case I've seen.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#413

Post by specialist »

southphillyman wrote: post #189
ransom1538 wrote: post #108

>> "Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of showing up on time (or at all)" Don't kid yourself. Those new hires are at other jobs making more money. I am booked for a roofer in feb 2018 (fingers crossed - friend of a friend). Blue skills are in extremely high demand. And those guys are working extremely hard making really high incomes (400k+). These guys are highly paid and are not…

Where can one go to learn these "blue collar" skills? As a recent home owner I'm learning first hand how valuable these skills are by way of my wallet. Seems like most people I meet who do these kinds of jobs were "born into it", and learned by helping a family member who was already in the industry. Are there IIT type schools which teach these kinds of things on a part time basis?

I had two bad experiences hiring contractors. I eventually decided that I could make my own mistakes, cheaper, and actually learn something in the process.

First step is to read What Your Contractor Won't Tell You [WYCWTY] https://www.amazon.com/What-Your-Contractor-Cant-Tell/dp/097... I wish I had this book before I started. Practical advice from a person who has remodeled 100s of houses. With checklists of things I didn't even know to ask about. I now buy this book for everyone I know thinking of having some work done.

By analogy, WYCWTY is like the Rapid Development and Code Complete type books. It covers that middle gray area between code construction and project & product management. Practical methodology, if you will.

Next, buy every book, watch every video. The best construction books (for me) come from Journal of Light Construction. Their field guides are spendy, so I snagged them thru camelcamelcamel. Also buy some fairly recent code books. Just keep reading, watching, experimenting until understanding.

Next, find local tradesmen who are willing to do side work. There are a lot of very qualified people who are happy to do spot work for cash. For the people I hire, I'm their gopher, cleaner, extra pair of hands. They're taking time away from their families, so I try to make it as painless as possible for them to help me.

Yes, the videos are great. But I've learned more from watching and helping. Two recent examples. #1 I had my guy rehang a new door. OMG. When I tried it myself, I had done everything wrong. This pro rehung the door faster and more true than I would have ever figured out on my own. I have 3 more doors to hang and now I know I'll get it right. #2 I also had a pro come in and hang then mud drywall. OMG. I had done everything wrong. This guy had some many tricks of the trade. Despite reading the books and watching the videos, I had never seen drywall hung before. I totally made a hash of it.

Lastly, buy all the tools, same ones contractors use. For example, I had lot of framing to do, so I bought a Hitachi nailer, the recommended compressor, etc. Now when a tradesmen shows up, I have the proper tools (makes everything easier). Plus, when I finish my remodel, I know I can get most of my money back. Overall, cheaper than renting or buying non-pro gear.

You'll waste a lot of time and money doing things yourself. But if you've got the stomach for it, I think you'll come out ahead. Teach a man to fish and all that.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#414

Post by galfarragem »

deadmetheny wrote: post #366
jondubois wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$400k is what senior executives of major multinational companies get paid. It's also what top surgeons get paid. I highly doubt that blue collar workers get anywhere near that much. If they did, everyone would try to work in that industry because the barrier to entry is comparatively very low.

They absolutely do, but not at entry level. They're the ones who have been doing it for ages, break off to start their own business doing it, and hire people to work for them, and the cycle begins anew. Nobody's doing it because the last 20 years kids have been told that college is the One True Path to being successful and that the trades are for people who can't hack it there. It's hard work and long hours before yo…

To affirm: who knows more, earns more is probably the most harmful lie you can say to your children. Supply and demand!

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#415

Post by s73ver_ »

turc1656 wrote: post #168
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The younger crowd seems to be largely detached from the idea of responsibility that was drilled into previous generations. My father graduated college making $42k/yr. Inflation adjusted, that was about $60k/yr in today's dollars. I just graduated, have experience in the field, and am getting a salary of $35k/yr in today's dollars. Meanwhile, upper management is getting millions. In that kind of work environment, wh…

I'm not sure how someone can just graduate and yet have meaningful experience in the field. Seems like only a very, very select few people can every really say that. Also, it's not clear if you and your father have degrees in the same field. If you do, part of it could easily be a supply/demand issue. I've heard similar stories from lawyers who enter the field and find it very difficult to get anything above 50k for…

If the employer is not paying what the "work ethic" is worth, then why should they get it?

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#416

Post by specialist »

birdmanjeremy wrote: post #287
southphillyman wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can one go to learn these "blue collar" skills? As a recent home owner I'm learning first hand how valuable these skills are by way of my wallet. Seems like most people I meet who do these kinds of jobs were "born into it", and learned by helping a family member who was already in the industry. Are there IIT type schools which teach these kinds of things on a part time basis?

Community college. It's cost effective and a great way to get your feet wet. I took a welding class at my local, and couldn't believe how cheap it was.

Ditto makerspaces, if your area has them.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#417

Post by avasylev »

giobox wrote: post #202
southphillyman wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can one go to learn these "blue collar" skills? As a recent home owner I'm learning first hand how valuable these skills are by way of my wallet. Seems like most people I meet who do these kinds of jobs were "born into it", and learned by helping a family member who was already in the industry. Are there IIT type schools which teach these kinds of things on a part time basis?

For a great many, youtube is surprisingly awesome. My normal approach to home DIY now is to watch as many youtube videos of the process I want to try as possible, then make a determination if it is something I still want professional help with or can try to do myself.

YouTube is awesome for DIY, I moved to older house two years ago and with youtube helps I've added crown moldings, repainted all rooms, replaced baseboard, built patio, deck - lots of fun, I think without youtube I wouldn't done any of it, zero experience before. Funny, my dad did a lot of renovations, and a lot of times I'd get more details/better tips on youtube than asking him :) But youtube is great for common DIY projects - how to add crown molding - tens of really good detailed videos. But if project is less commonly done by DIY folks, not that much info - I've needed to replace exterior window trim - not that much, people usually hire for that.

DIY subreddit is also a good place to search and ask questions.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#418

Post by s73ver_ »

Danihan wrote: post #281
turc1656 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how someone can just graduate and yet have meaningful experience in the field. Seems like only a very, very select few people can every really say that. Also, it's not clear if you and your father have degrees in the same field. If you do, part of it could easily be a supply/demand issue. I've heard similar stories from lawyers who enter the field and find it very difficult to get anything above 50k for…

Waste of time spending this much effort on ppl w/ entitlement issues.

You mean the employers who don't want to pay for decent employees?

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#419

Post by ars »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #347
VLM wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stealth intelligence test. For a variety of interesting historical reasons, the government hates intelligence tests as a hiring criteria and this is the blue collar stealth/workaround IQ test. Its the blue collar equivalent of fizzbuzz or a gitlab repo. Look, you got one task, one task only, it's not even hard to figure out, do not, repeat, do not, get high the week or two before your pee test. That simple. There are…

Some smokers are smart, though. I wonder if it's another kind of test?

If you are unable to refrain for 2 weeks, then you are not the kind of person who they want to hire, because it means you will also not refrain when you are on duty.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#420

Post by s73ver_ »

dionidium wrote: post #58
neves wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd prefer my software developers with a sharp mind than sleepy zumbis that are just physically present.

That's a perfectly valid company policy. What I think is different is that it's quickly becoming a cultural expectation in some cohorts, not merely an employee-friendly perk.

Because most companies have to offer that, now. Otherwise, in most cases, we can go somewhere else doing the same kind of stuff, but with a company that does offer that flexibility. As a bonus, I might get a raise for doing so, too.
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